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#26 Big Blooming Blighter

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 11:32 PM

Ich spreche eine bischen Deutsch, aber Ich verstehe nicht

I speak a little German, but I'm not.... and I don't know what follows
All the world will be your enemy, Prince of a Thousand enemies. And when they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you; digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed.

#27 Kenshin

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 11:55 PM

I speak a little German, but I understand not. Literally.

It's ein bißchen.

#28 Big Blooming Blighter

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 12:50 AM

well, if you don't have the symbol for it, you can spell it phonetically, id est ss
All the world will be your enemy, Prince of a Thousand enemies. And when they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you; digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed.

#29 Angakuk

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 01:04 AM

May I point out that grammatical or spelling errors in either the Spanish or the German phrase are totally irrelevant.  If I could speak either language with any sort of fluency, I would not have needed to use the phrase.  In fact, the errors themselves help to emphasize my lack of fluency, thus garnering just the sort of consideration and patience they were meant to engender.

Angakuk (partially illiterate in 5 languages, completely illiterate in all the others)
To dare is to lose one’s footing momentarily; not to dare is to lose oneself. Kierkegaard

I don’t blame you for not believing in the kind of god you think I believe in. I don’t believe
in that god either. George MacDonald

#30 Kenshin

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 01:10 AM

But to study a language is to learn from mistakes, Angakuk. Your mistakes help other beginners learn, too. Please don't be afraid of making helpful mistakes.  :cheers1:

#31 Angakuk

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 01:29 AM

I'm not afraid of making mistakes.  I make mistakes all the time.  In fact, I have made some mistakes so often they have practically become standard practice.  Thus are innovations born.

Angakuk
To dare is to lose one’s footing momentarily; not to dare is to lose oneself. Kierkegaard

I don’t blame you for not believing in the kind of god you think I believe in. I don’t believe
in that god either. George MacDonald

#32 qualia

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 12:42 PM

Lesson II:
Qualia’s Guide to Basic Spanish


Qualia's Haughtiness:

The discourse that continues these lessons has been fine, but I’d ask if such banal phrases as, “please don’t be afraid of making mistakes” be self-censored because they do not appear as entirely honest lectures, for although what is preached may look like some form of integrity, the underlying disposition comes across as one of dictate and pretence. One could wonder if it was written to devalue the reader, revenge whilst valorising the revenge of the writer. I’ve noticed this kind of thing a lot in life, folk openly wearing their frivolous learning and using it like some weapon of domination and oppression. These lessons are offered, so that one may end up communicating with beautiful people, not to be learnt as some intellectual exercise that can then be used as a means of exhibiting one’s ‘superiority’ and ‘cleverness.’ This is not a dig at AllBlue, Angakuk, or the Beast.

A: Grammar Section: Ser y Estar

Both these verbs mean ‘to be’ in English, so we need to understand some basic differences between them to avoid making common mistakes. I will conjugate them only into the present simple singular to begin with.

Ser: to be
Soy: I am
Eres: You are
El es: He is
Ella es: She is

Estar: to be
Estoy: I am
Estás: You are
El está: He is
Ella está: She is

Ser
‘Ser’ will describe the everyday conception of ontological permanency. We will look at just three categories.

Identity
Soy Qualia: I am Qualia
Eres Beast: You are Beast
El es José: He is Joseph
Ella es María: She is Mary.

Profession
Soy profesor: I ‘m a teacher.
Eres estudiante: You’re a student
José es cura: José is a priest (curate, clergyman, etc.)
María es médica: María is a doctor.

Nationality
Soy inglés: I’m English
Eres alemán: You’re German
El es español: He is Spanish
Ella es francés: She is french.

N.B.
1) We do not include the indefinite article in phrases which designate one’s profession.
2) One’s nationality is always written in lower case (it's an adjective).

Estar
‘Estar’ will describe the everyday conception of ontological contigency and the ephemeral nature of being. Today we look at just one aspect!

Place
Estoy en el salón: I’m in the living room (lounge).
Estás en la cocina: You are in the kitchen.
José está en el baño: José is in the bathroom
María está en el dormitorio: María is in the bedroom

Homework: go over this list and remember:
1) the conjugation of present simple singular of the verb ‘to be’ in both cases.
2) the given conditions in which we use each verb

B: Simple Conjunction
or = o

C: Vocabulary Section

Profesión
Un profesor-Una profesora
Un estudiante-Una estudiante
Una cura-Una cura
Un médico-Una médica

Nacionalidad
Un inglés-Una inglesa
Un alemán- Una alemana
Un español-Una española
Un francés-Una francesa
N.B. 'Un francés' also means ‘blow job’ in the given context  :shock:  

La casa (the house)
Un salon
Una cocina
Un baño
Un dormitorio

Numbers 5 to 10
6 seis
7 siete
8 ocho
9 nueve
10 diez

Useful words

Hola -Hello
Adiós - Goodbye
Gracias - Thank you
Lo siento - I'm sorry, sorry.

#33 Big Blooming Blighter

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 12:43 PM

Can anyone explain to me why 'tener' conjugates differently to 'comer'? Is 'tener' an exception to the rule?
All the world will be your enemy, Prince of a Thousand enemies. And when they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you; digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed.

#34 qualia

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 12:48 PM

Tener is one of many irregular verbs. Like English, Spanish has loads.

#35 Big Blooming Blighter

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 12:57 PM

Ah, that explains it.

So, is there any easy way to spot an irregular verb before conjugating it?
All the world will be your enemy, Prince of a Thousand enemies. And when they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you; digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed.

#36 qualia

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 01:02 PM

No  :D Stick to my lesson plan. By the end of these two lessons and the little thing at the beginning of this thread you will be able to count to ten, identify yourself and others, designate where you are in the house, offer ideas of possession, know some general vocabulary and how to say 'blow-job' in Spanish. That's not bad, for a couple of hours work and all for free. I'd be charging the suit boys €20-€25 an hour for this kind of stuff.

#37 Big Blooming Blighter

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 02:29 PM

OK, I'm just going to try and put a few basic sentences together.

Vosotras chicas comeis uvas  -  You girls are eating grapes

Comenos naranjas  -  You are eating oranges

Usted habla espanol?

Si, hablo espanol.

Ellos hablan ingles?

No, yo hablo ingles y ellos hablan espanol.


Edit - Missed the second 'o' on 'naranjas'
All the world will be your enemy, Prince of a Thousand enemies. And when they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you; digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed.

#38 qualia

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 02:50 PM

OK. You got to be careful.

Quote

Vosotras chicas comeis uvas - You girls are eating grapes

When? By using the present simple you are giving the idea of permanency. Like, 'my name is qualia,' 'my car is green.' If the girls are eating graps now, then the correct form is: "estáis comiendo uvas." Furthermore, why the word 'chicas' when this is being referred to already in vosotras?

Quote

Comenos naranjas - You are eating oranges

No. "Comes naranjas." A general state, as in: 'you eat oranges.' If the action is happening at this moment, then: "estás comiendo naranjas.

Quote

Ellos hablan ingles?

No, yo hablo ingles y ellos hablan espanol.

The question is: "Do they speak English?" And the answer given is: "No, I speak English and they speak Spanish." The answer is not obvious. Better,

¿Hablan inglés?
Pues no, no hablan inglés. Hablan castellano.

español=adjective of nationality
castellano=name of language spoken in large areas of Spain.

#39 Big Blooming Blighter

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 03:47 PM

OK, so I guess I need to learn to distinguish between different forms of the present tense.  :(

For 'You are eating oranges' I was using 'You' in the formal sense.
All the world will be your enemy, Prince of a Thousand enemies. And when they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you; digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed.

#40 Big Blooming Blighter

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 04:57 PM

BTW, For 'simple conjunction' in lesson 2, don't you mean 'simple disjunction'?
All the world will be your enemy, Prince of a Thousand enemies. And when they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you; digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed.

#41 qualia

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 04:59 PM

Quote

For 'You are eating oranges' I was using 'You' in the formal sense.

OK, There's two ways of doing this:
1) Come  naranjas = singular
2) Comen naranjas =plural

If the subject pronoun is needed because it's not clear who one is talking to, then slip in an 'usted' or 'ustedes'. That is:

1) Come usted naranjas.
2) Comen ustedes naranjas.

Usted may be written in grammar form as 'a formal you' but that doesn't make a lot of sense because 'you' is the formal form of 'Thou.' The English talk to everyone in 'usted,' even to those they are making love to!

Speaking of tenses (tiempos (times) en castellano)

There is no absolute distinction between present simple and present continuous in Spanish.

In English we say "I eat oranges" which is a habit and "I am eating oranges" which is an activity occuring at this moment. In Spanish, 'como naranjas' can be either of the two; however, 'estoy comiendo naranjas' stresses the fact or case.

#42 Big Blooming Blighter

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 09:55 PM

So now we're bringing in syntax as well, eh?

OK, so

Verb  -  pronoun  -  object
All the world will be your enemy, Prince of a Thousand enemies. And when they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you; digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed.

#43 qualia

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 11:21 PM

Ah sorry. No, don't follow that rule! I just put it in because you can do it with usted (but not the others, just to confuse you hahahaha)

Come usted manzanas: you eat apples/you are eating apples
Usted come manzanas: you eat apples/you are eating apples
¿Come usted manzanas: Do you eat apples? (this is how we usually say it)
¿Usted come manzanas?: Do you eat apples?

But (here, in the following, it's really not necessary the subject pronoun- the Spanish hardly use them because it's given in the verb)

Comes manzanas=you eat apples
¿Comes manzanas?=Do you eat apples?

When stating the former you keep your voice straight, but when asking a question raise the inclination of your voice just slightly. You know, like we do with our own question tags: "You like apples, don't you? In this way raise the inclination of your tones on: ¿comes manzanas?

#44 Big Blooming Blighter

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 11:35 PM

So, if asking a question, is the pronoun still not required?

E.g. Come manzanas?

ETA - Hang on...is there a typo in your post, or is there a reason why you switched from an -e ending to an -es ending?

Wait....the -es ending is an informal address, yes?
All the world will be your enemy, Prince of a Thousand enemies. And when they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you; digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed.

#45 qualia

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 11:46 PM

Yes  :D

OK. Beast. Try to drop the subject pronouns whenever possible (except in usted). Otherwise, later, you're not going to be able to drop them because they'll be too drummed in your head! Obviously, they are used but not anything to the extent we use them in English. It took me a long time to realise that, which is why I pass this into you. I came to Spain with no knowledge of Spanish and just had to get by on wit and charm for a good many years. I made (and still do) mistakes which is why I try to pass on my best to you.

#46 Big Blooming Blighter

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 12:09 AM

BTW, how does one pronounce 'frances' (I can't get accents here)?

Is it fran + sez

or

fran + thes
All the world will be your enemy, Prince of a Thousand enemies. And when they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you; digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed.

#47 qualia

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 01:09 AM

In spain: 'fran-thes' You naughty boy! 2 sylables. Stress the bold.

#48 Big Blooming Blighter

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 01:20 AM

Test:

fránces

YAY! Accents!  :D
All the world will be your enemy, Prince of a Thousand enemies. And when they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you; digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed.

#49 sothisismike

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 07:02 PM

Just a quick question for you, Qualia (or for anyone else who knows the answer):

A few posts ago you stated that "español=adjective of nationality" whereas "
castellano=name of language spoken in large areas of Spain."

How clear-cut is that distinction?  I mean, can't "castellano" be used as an adjective to denote that something has the property of being of Castillian origin?  Couldn't a certain dish, person, or type of art be Castiallian, as opposed to Andalusian?

Furthermore, isn't Castellano just the prevalent dialect of the Spanish language?  Do those in Mexico and South America speak it, or can they properly be said to speak español?  If not, why do I see so many signs that advertise "Se habla español" instead of "Se habla castellano?"

Just curious - sorry if it comes across as a little picky.

#50 qualia

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 09:04 PM

Quote

Just curious - sorry if it comes across as a little picky.

Hey Sothisismike, it's an extremely valid question! and I'm glad you have been thoughtful enough to post it.

Quote

How clear-cut is that distinction? I mean, can't "castellano" be used as an adjective to denote that something has the property of being of Castillian origin? Couldn't a certain dish, person, or type of art be Castiallian, as opposed to Andalusian?

Yes, it can. You're absolutely right.

Quote

Furthermore, isn't Castellano just the prevalent dialect of the Spanish language? Do those in Mexico and South America speak it, or can they properly be said to speak español? If not, why do I see so many signs that advertise "Se habla español" instead of "Se habla castellano?"

Castellano is español. In this way, castellano is the Spanish language, just as español is the Spanish language. The thing is, and this is only from my experience, there are many Latin folk who don't like to say they speak Spanish (español) (those from the Basque country, the Catalans, Galicia, Chile, Argentina, and so on) because they reason that the word gives connotations of Spain's imperialism (it's curious just how divided Spain actually is!). So, they prefer to say they speak castellano. Over the years, I've come to adopt the expression simply to not cause offence. I imagine the advertising sign posts you see are probably posted up in Madrid, England, Australia or USA, where this contention isn't really a problem or obvious. I hope this has helped. And thanks for posting.




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