Jump to content


- - - - -

Esoteric traditions


  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1 Da Fire

Da Fire

    lowly monk

  • Members
  • 262 posts

Posted 11 February 2005 - 08:33 AM

[This discussion has been split from here - HH.]

Science is walking on a razors edge when holding such theories as those in the high energy partical physics arena as well tested or even tested to a degree that is worth even noting (IMHO).  I feel that science has stepped into a ocean of knowledge and a hypothesis (not theory) generating field that they are not really aware of.  I feel that as they have stepped into string theory and parallel universes the scientist are now moving out of hard science and into metaphysics with mathematics.  

The metaphysics I am used to do not encorporate any real mathematics.  Mainly abstract and subjective consideration.  Where do the scientist get off saying this is science while restricting Good metaphysics to less than?  Maybe some one can clear this up.  Why have metaphysics and philosophy (at least from my perspective as I view the scientific community looking back at people like me) become not so noble and dignified as they really deserve to be.  I perceive them to be very noble and worthy of tons of consideration, but science is now looking towards the ancient esoteric traditions and experiences of the mystics to find correlations  :shock: .  In their latest theories they have swam into a shark infested eddy of unsubstantial mind fantasies.  This is not the science of old.  Now what will science have to say when it finds that the deepest and most profound theories they have are old religions and secret teachings only shared by the most experienced mystics?  When science becomes arcane they will find themselves asking about God again.   :lol:  

I think this will only lead to a bright new day for metaphysics and philosophy.  Science is coming to a point that it must return to that from which it came.  

from me

Quote

I feel the time for Neonaturalism is here, a form of the old natural philosophy with the strength of the contemporary scientific edge.  Neonaturalism is a philosophy with a clean and clear metaphysics that I am looking to give a metaphysical foundation to build a new platform for all epistemology to drink from [quite a vain idea but one I am not willing to dismiss].  This is a long term project I am taking on with everyone, with hopes of having lots of contributions.  Well, this is where I see science and philosophy going.  The name (Neonaturalism) may not be the one, but the idea is certianly out there besides my head I am sure.
  

I think the undecidability of Reality is the necessary basis for all metaphysics and even science.  Thus, the undecidability stands as a real transcendent quality of nature, even epistemology.  When science allows transcendence then science has found the (true) unified theory [imho].

Well, what does anyone else have to say?  I do not want to say very much, this time.  In conclusion, the high energy science is no better than high thought metaphysics today.

warm regards, Jared.
"Once the quote ends the interpretation begins." My main website: http://www.HeartRealization.com God Only Is.

#2 Hugo Holbling

Hugo Holbling

    Corruptio optimi pessima

  • Administrators
  • 3,869 posts
  • LocationUK
  • Real name:Paul

Posted 11 February 2005 - 10:09 PM

Da Fire said:

... science is now looking towards the ancient esoteric traditions and experiences of the mystics to find correlations  :shock: .  In their latest theories they have swam into a shark infested eddy of unsubstantial mind fantasies.  This is not the science of old.

Can you expand on what you mean by these things; namely, "looking towards ancient esoteric traditions", "unsubstantial mind fantasies" and "the science of old"? What is "neonaturalism"?
"In everything that he'd ever thought about the world and about his life in it he'd been wrong." - Cities of the Plain

#3 Da Fire

Da Fire

    lowly monk

  • Members
  • 262 posts

Posted 12 February 2005 - 07:08 AM

Hugo

Quote

Can you expand on what you mean by these things; namely, "looking towards ancient esoteric traditions", "unsubstantial mind fantasies" and "the science of old"? What is "neonaturalism"?

Well, to address the first question, I mean that as the unified theories become more and more distant from everyday experience, the resources for their new concepts and ideas that may give an insight into a direction to (maybe) take are found in metaphysical places.  The ancient esoteric traditions (even the older philosophies) are full of parallel universes and subtle energies in their text and mystical practices.  These energies are in many ways very similar to the enigmatic quantum energies.  Also the reality of the doctrine of these ancient traditions leaves the scientist with a bit more 'faith' in driving their theory in a fresh direction.  The streets of the unified theory in physics are invisible and do not appear until you step on them or make a turn down a particular road.  

The 'unsubstantial' part is more of rhetoric than meaningful.  The ideas and concepts that are now appearing are not new, such as parallel universes.  These ideas are thousands of years old, except to the modern western mind they feel like something out of the twilight zone.  I have dealt with this for many life times  :wink:  and I am only giggling now  :lol: .  Mystical experiences are full of the 'new theories' that are coming out of the unified theory field.  Vibration and harmony, paradoxically mixed with uncertianty and apparent chaos.  This is the life of a mystic.  Therefore, the rhetoric is nothing more than what has been projected onto the past realizers in the esoteric traditions and now being reflected back; generally of the east, but not necessarily so.  The point is that what is universal has been known for thousands of years.  The particular was never a meditation of the mystic unless for samadhi or a particular power, yet they understood the impermanence of such things (consequently, not being distracted by a particular meditation as the scientist are today distracted with their respective fields).  The unified theorist are the 'new/neo scientific mystics' (like the old ones that incorporated all fields into one whole world view)!  This is the correlation and nexus that I feel that a gathering of the fields of science (all fields), philosophy and just plain old naturalism (relating to nature and feeling inexplicably one and the same) are part and important in their own way to the 'wholality' of human knowledge.

The wholeness of this knowledge being accepted and studied together and either correlated or related together represents neonaturalism (to me [I thought of the word neonaturalism as a good name for such a new philosophy, maybe it has been thought of under another name or just the ideas and concepts are already out there] ).  The science of old was that of Newtonian mechanics and even relativity, but the path science takes today, even along the unified frontier, is no longer grounded in the reality of everyday (five senses kinda of thing).  The sciences proper are all feeling on one elephant, yet everyone has a separate part to gather information from and to explain this knowledge with a method of hard and unobscured clarity.  The point is they all think they are examining something different from each other.  Thus, most of the specialists have lost touch with the rest of reality and the connection of the rest of science because they are engulfed in a particular and find this to be the fulfilling of their worldview.  The science of old had a clear view of the world (although it may have been a bit incorrect) and the nexus of it all, but today the sciences are so far away from each other in their respective fields that the nexus between them has been stretched into a string [bit of a pun here], instead of an aether or medium.  The science of old is not the science we have of today (IMHO, of course).

I hope I got to all of your questions and answered them enough to make room for a understood response.  Either way these ideas are not absolute, rather they are my take on the estate of the wholality of human knowledge today.  Neonaturalism is a philosophy that can once again gather all her chicks under one wing.  The idea of neonaturalism at least in my mind represents this return to a new world view that is extraordinarly refined (IMHO).

p.s. >>  I truly feel that we can really do this no matter how long it takes, or how much effort is needed.  I know this is not really anything new :oops:  

warm regards, Jared.
"Once the quote ends the interpretation begins." My main website: http://www.HeartRealization.com God Only Is.

#4 Hugo Holbling

Hugo Holbling

    Corruptio optimi pessima

  • Administrators
  • 3,869 posts
  • LocationUK
  • Real name:Paul

Posted 12 February 2005 - 09:38 AM

I split these posts because i want to see where the discussion of esoteric traditions will lead. For those unfamiliar with what Da Fire is referring to, Hall's The Secret Teachings of All Ages is a nice work to consult, with varying degrees of credibility (although if wishing to purchase it you should note that the hardback has some of the most beautiful plates you could hope to see in full quarto).

To continue, then:

Da Fire said:

The point is that what is universal has been known for thousands of years.

Hopefully you can say some more about this notion and your take on the mystical experience in general.
"In everything that he'd ever thought about the world and about his life in it he'd been wrong." - Cities of the Plain

#5 Da Fire

Da Fire

    lowly monk

  • Members
  • 262 posts

Posted 16 February 2005 - 04:29 AM

The gnosis of the wholeness of reality is not something of scientific origin, of course.  It is grounded in the mystical experience.  The enlightenment that results from such experiences are spoken of through out the esoteric traditions in many degrees.  The more the tradition points to the actual transfiguration of the human consciousness (that means that something tangibly manifest and perpetually changes the human consciousness) and human form by prayer, meditation and yogic practices, the more 'esoteric' the tradition becomes.  

The traditions are in themselves not really a religion.  These traditions are more of a theory and a philosophy: the traditions in their purest form are a relationship to the Teacher or lineage holder of the tradition that has been passed down.  A relationship that has many methods and ways of demonstrating the significance or the expression or degree of devotion one has to God, to God through the Teacher that the Disciple finds him/herself in a relationship with, or to God through the Communion that is generated by God through the Teacher with the group or individual.  

The important thing to take note of is that lots of conflicting ideas arise out of the relationship of Disciple-Teacher from outside sources, and sometimes from inside sources that hold a ignorance or misunderstanding of the truth of the esoteric tradition.  Those of the tradition can be perfectly happy within themselves, but many times the outside the influences of society will try to restrict the freedom that is expressed.  For example, there are crazy wisdom Teachers that will sometimes hit or slap the Disciple that is intended as some kind of shock therapy that may allow the Disciple to catch a glance of God as reality now.  The hit or slap (sometimes called shakti pat) is always spontaneous and unexpected.  The Disciple usually does not take the slap as something condenscending, thus, rendering the Disciple to leave the Teacher or tradition.  Yet, the outside influence will sometimes interject with their self imposed moral values and try to regulate the activity of the realitionship that is ususally unique to each tradition.  The point is that this is a blessing and embraced by the Disciple and something not clearly viewed by the outside society.  

The truth is that in the most esoteric forms we find a strange and curious relationship that appears between the Teacher and Disciple and/or group of Disciples.  The point we should be careful of here in understanding these traditions is that they are all geared to some kind of ultimate liberation from a presumed lack of enbrightenment inherent in ones life at birth.  In other words, although a child may be born with a bright knowledge of God, the awareness must fully develope over the life-time or at a certian point where the individual once again turns to Know Self.  At that point a tradition is usually sought.  

The esoteric traditions are not about worshipping a person or practice or even a set of ideas and concepts; the traditions are about finding that direct Communion one discovers in the Teacher, which is usually (and preferably) already enbrightened, in their selves with God.  The genuine traditions are sustained by the actual demonstration of enbrightenment via the already realized Teacher.  The greatest asset of the genuine traditions are the siddhas (blessing powers) that are manifest and properly applied as tools for liberation and not traps for slavery.  

I will say more, but I have to go for now.  warm regards, Jared.
"Once the quote ends the interpretation begins." My main website: http://www.HeartRealization.com God Only Is.

#6 Da Fire

Da Fire

    lowly monk

  • Members
  • 262 posts

Posted 17 February 2005 - 09:08 PM

The relationship of that is found in the esoteric traditions is not something easily understood by those outside of such a relationship.  The ignorance may cuase one to view such a relationship as evil, morally wrong or some kind of way that a person does not worship God or is no longer worshipping God, but instead has found themsleves worshipping something less than God.  I find the false ideas of esoteric traditions a good place to start.  I can clear up alot of questions first and then allow us to dive into the traditions without looking back for fear of religion haunting our backs.

The relationships found in the esoteric traditions are sometimes compared to a marriage.  The Teacher, the husband, and the Disciple, the wife.  The marriage of the Teacher-Disciple relationship is the commitment that both make in equal understanding of a commitment to enbrightenment.  The Teacher plays the role of the Realizer or source of the enbrightenment that is realized in human form.  This provides the Disciple with a tangible source to find a 'believable' example of the proposition of enbrightenment, and enbrightenment as something real and not only imagination.  

The traditions usually have a particular holy book, or a set of holy books that are studied.  Most often the traditions encourage the Disciple to study much about other religions or esoteric traditions to allow one to see the underlying nexus that gives substance to and unity to all religions and esoteric traditions.  The Disciples are to also attend to the Teacher and provide him/her with the utmost honor by serving them and the proliferation of the tradition to keep the lineage alive and to make known the teachings of the tradition.  The Disciple is to help make available the Teacher and the teachings to new or even long time searching aspirants.  There may be different rituals that one may have to enter or go through before meeting the Teacher or even having access to the more 'esoteric' teachings: ex. the secret forms of yoga and meditation, the practices that are more geared to obtaining powers or are the most extreme forms that are used to generate the Transmission of the Teacher/Realizer.  But these are part of the tradition(s), thus, cannot be skipped because one may feel they do not need to be subjected to such things that are for the uninitiated in experience of the higher forms of samadhi (samadhis are different degrees of realization that appear during meditation and are hopefully carried into ones daily activities; integrated into the wholeness of ones human consciousness) or the un-awakened and unexperienced.

The esoteric traditions have many false gurus that discover these traditions, start a new one, and make themselves king/queen and subject everyone to slavery for their personal power seeking fulfillment.  These people are the infections that hurt the reputation of genuine traditions and generate preconcieved ideas of what the other traditions are doing.  They hurt the reputation of all (respectable) traditions which deeply depend on the Teacher-Disciple relationship to Communicate the fullness of the esoteric tradition.  

The moral relativism of most of these esoteric traditions is not so they can have a freedom to do what they want and get away with it, rather, the morals "appear" relative because of the strange and uncouth methods that are demonstrated in the inner circles.  Most of the time much is kept secret because of these 'uncouth' moments between the Teacher-Disciple are transcendental and remain without explanation of a rational kind or logical kind.  Consequently, those in the outter circle only here rumors and tales or stories from the inner circle.  This keeps them interested and generates a greater desire for enbrightenment that is being passed down to them through this particular esoteric tradition.  These stories are sometimes called Lelas or divine stories that bring about moments and experiences of enbrightenment within the esoteric tradition(s).

The Lelas come in many forms and are sometimes mythical in nature, but if you were not there and directly part of a particular Lela I would let judgment of the situation be left up in the air.  From these Lelas the tradition is held together by word of mouth or by writing them down.  From the Lelas the Disciples can find correlations of experiences they may have had or even experience the same siddhas (blessing powers) that happened during the Lela; either the Lela is an old Lela from previous times in the tradition or Lelas that are happening right now in the tradition one may have entered into.  The Lelas are just as much a part of the esoteric tradition(s) as the holy book(s) and/or Teacher(s).  The Lelas may serve the purpose of keeping some of the most fantastic claims seductive and enigmatic, and to "leak" out certian ideas that some one may have 'reached' enbrightenment or that the Teacher may have done some awesome display of power.

There is more to this topic of course (a whole lot) and I will try to generate a synopsis with a much more clear flow to the dialogue later.  But for now, I am stopping.  If anyone has questions or would like to fire some of their own experienced knowledge into the churning thread please do.  I am just trying to expound an academic understanding of what is considered a genuine esoteric tradition and the pseudo traditions that immitate, and to render a clear understanding what the esoteric traditions are all about; plus the rich life that radiates from these cultures of people.  This distinction can be vital to those curious about finding a Teacher or tradition, and may save someone alot of heart ache and head ache from a false guru.  I also want to make it clear that I do not consider the esoteric traditions religions in themselves, I see them as more of a culture of people that have a common interest and share a common tradition and practice of spirituality.  Not some kind of religion that requires one to "go out into the world and make sure everyone adheres to my word".  The esoteric traditions are like gems waiting to be found and experienced, and not something that is preaching how to make money and get rich quick by "God's blessing", or even how to be a better person.  In the esoteric traditions to be a better person is the least of your worries.

warm regards, Jared.
"Once the quote ends the interpretation begins." My main website: http://www.HeartRealization.com God Only Is.

#7 Da Fire

Da Fire

    lowly monk

  • Members
  • 262 posts

Posted 18 February 2005 - 09:42 PM

The esoteric traditions are wonderful resources for the proliferation of the secret revelations that may concern the whole planet or the direction that is possible for those studying a tradition, or because of some kind of cosmic event that happened on the subtle plane which brings closer the global revelation.  The esoteric traditions may contain some forms of eschatology and may be involved in secretly doing 'work' to bring about particular prophecies.  The esoteric tradtions may have prophecies about the next Teacher that will come and fulfill the lineage.  They may describe strange characteristics that seem to say nothing at first glance, yet when the Teacher pops up, the prophecies are very clear.  

Now, no matter if you believe in global revelation or prophecies of any kind be aware that they are present in some of the traditions.  There is more going on in the esoteric tradtions than most want to look at.  Much of the methods/theories of practice and the philosophy one encounters while experiencing the teachings of a particualr tradition are controversial.  If the public knew what was going on in some of these traditions they would send in the military and bomb the crap out of them  :lol:.  A bit more than what would probably happen, yet, a good example would be David Koresh.  Not to give credit to this organization or take credit away, just an example of the kind of realities that are present when entering a esoteric tradition or just studying one.  

The practices of sex and orgies and homosexuality and what ever kind of sex you can imagine are definitely there within some of the most respected and unrespected esoteric traditions.  Not to say that every traditionis involved with all the previously spoken sexual activity, but that sex is a large part of the process of learning.  Some esoteric traditions have a bad name because of the sex parties or orgies.  Some traditions are based entirely off the sexual relationship.  Some do not even touch the subject; I would say very few traditions will you find that completely ignore sex.  The sexual activity of a particular tradition can be a vital point of inquirey.  For the most part in the west sex is some kind of taboo, thus, the theme of sexual activity has a greater importance because of the hidden repression found in ones sexual closet.  

The sexual repressions are places that have the most intense attachment of ego.  The exposing of these sexual desires or repressions is key to opening up whole body transcendence.  The Teacher usually has a keen insight into the repressions of ones personality and can focus in on these attachments.  The Teacher will some times call the Disciple into a room either privately or with a group of respected Disciples and work on these egoic ideas that are hidden like some kind of top secret information.  The person may be asked to perform sexual acts or just hang out naked.  These kinds of practices can be only understood if you are there, and experiencing the egoic dilemma.  In instances like this the outside knowledge is justly kept secret.  This is not knowledge that should be out in public nor should the public have a say so in what happens.  

The problem with this is there are many false gurus out there with sex on their agenda.  They are the perpetrators of the sexual attacks and harm the Disciples (I hesitate to call them Disciples because of being part of a false tradition) that leave the innocent psychologically damaged; sometimes for life.  It is because of this kind of con that it is extremely important to sit back and examine a tradition before submitting to it.  This is a warning to all hopeful aspirants, spend time with the Teacher if you can, read up on all the practices that a particular esoteric tradition offers.  Hang out and watch those that are involved in the tradition.  Talk to those involved and see how they respond to your questions; do not be afraid to ask the difficult questions: these questions may very well keep you from harm.  Watch to see if the Disciples are just repeating programmed answers, or are they speaking from their hearts and realization that has awakened in them (to whatever degree).  

Check to see if and how many Disciples have become enbrightened, check to see if the Teacher is the F.L.O.: the (F) stands for the First: the (L) stands for the Last: the (O) stands for the Only.  Now this kind of tradition(s) has two poles of Teaching.  The first and most danagerous is that the Teacher has positioned him/herself as the only person that can Realize truth to the degree that the Teacher posits to have.  In other words, no one else will "ever" know the truth like them, thus, eternally placing the Disciple in a dilemma that, according to that particular esoteric tradition, it is not possible for any one else (ever) to Realize.  The second example of the F.L.O. is a tradition that posits the Teacher to be the one that has come to reveal a particular revelation, while at the same time allowing for the Disciples to also have the same Realization.  This kind of tradition is a valid one while the other is probably a trap for slavery.

Ask yourself, is this a valid tradition.  What kind of lineage does the Teacher(s) hold.  Has the Teacher been initiated by another repsected tradition, yet, has decided to establish their own.  What are the reasons for leaving the old tradition and starting your own.  What is the goal of the tradition or what is required to be a Disciple in the esoteric tradition.  These and any question you can think of that may help you make the decision are vital to entertain.  

There is so much I can say, but for now I will let this marinate, and post again later.  regards, Jared.
"Once the quote ends the interpretation begins." My main website: http://www.HeartRealization.com God Only Is.

#8 Hugo Holbling

Hugo Holbling

    Corruptio optimi pessima

  • Administrators
  • 3,869 posts
  • LocationUK
  • Real name:Paul

Posted 19 February 2005 - 09:31 PM

The difficulty in discussing esoteric traditions lies typically in the exponent having had a so-called mystical experience while his or her reader may not. Harder still, though, is the trend Jared has remarked upon here wherein all kinds of ideas are identified with mysticism - another demarcation problem, as always. The mystic, however, has no criteria to point to because in attempting to find them he or she already misses the mark; that is, the experience eludes us in describing or interpreting it. The Taoists tried to get aroound this by employing the negative way; namely, explaining the Tao by saying what it is not. In general, i suppose, a good test when confronted by what smacks of "mystical mumbo-jumbo" is one taught to me by a Zen master many moons ago: if someone claims to be enlightened (in whatever way), you can assume they aren't...
"In everything that he'd ever thought about the world and about his life in it he'd been wrong." - Cities of the Plain

#9 Da Fire

Da Fire

    lowly monk

  • Members
  • 262 posts

Posted 20 February 2005 - 12:34 AM

Hugo>>

Quote

The difficulty in discussing esoteric traditions lies typically in the exponent having had a so-called mystical experience while his or her reader may not. Harder still, though, is the trend Jared has remarked upon here wherein all kinds of ideas are identified with mysticism - another demarcation problem, as always. The mystic, however, has no criteria to point to because in attempting to find them he or she already misses the mark; that is, the experience eludes us in describing or interpreting it. The Taoists tried to get aroound this by employing the negative way; namely, explaining the Tao by saying what it is not. In general, i suppose, a good test when confronted by what smacks of "mystical mumbo-jumbo" is one taught to me by a Zen master many moons ago: if someone claims to be enlightened (in whatever way), you can assume they aren't...

The mystical experience can never be translated so that another person can (by reading about the experience) directly share or some how experience the same exact experience.  The only way to directly Know what the mystical experience manifest to the person, or what the mystical experience communicated to the person is through Communion (I will talk abit more on this later).  As we read and learn about the different esoteric traditions we will come across many descriptions of enbrightenment/enlightenment.  None of these writings are the experience itself.  Nor are any of the writings enbrightenment itself.  

The realization of truth via some kind of mystical experience will forever remain beyond the scope of words, concepts, images or ideas.  We can learn about how to either deal with such experiences from the way that previously aspirants have and/or we can learn about what to expect (kinda).  By reading the different ways that enbrightenment is spoken about we can learn to tune into that reality.  

Now, as there are many people that would completely dismiss someones philosophy or method of communicating enbrightenment through words, we cannot allow this to be the case.  For in the nature of a Realized person even their words and writings actually do (in a mystical manner) allow for the door of truth to be ripped open in the mind and heart, and the reality (or enbrightenment) of what they are intending to communicate through words ect. is completely possible to experience at that moment you are reading and contemplating.

For in those that are truly enbrightened the fullness of their realization is already present and freely available in you now.  The enlightenment of the individual is the same and one and only enlightenment of reality or existence or God (you insert the absolute here: the truth perpetually eludes a name).  This means that we are already enbrightened.  Therefore, this means that there is nothing to do.  This means that to sek a tradition or Teacher is useless.  This means that religion and all the divine commandments are futile.  Yet, in all this negation we find that there are religions and esoteric traditions.  We notice that some people are enlightened and others horribly deluded.  We learn from the understanding that all are already enbrightened that all are not already enbrightened.  This kind of knowledge could be compared to knowledge after the fact or aposteriori knowledge.

The reality is that for those already enbrightened the reality of everyone else is transcended and the apparent un-enbrightenment of general society is only an illusion.  For those still 'trapped' or un-enbrightened there is a illusion that appears as reality, although it is not transcended or realized.  To conclude this post I will leave you with a short poem I wrote a while back.  

In the alpha there was not; but only the Now.
In the omega there was not; but only the Now.
In the middle there was not; but only the Now.
In Reality there was not an alpha or omega or middle,
There is only the Now.
Now is Now, and Now will always be Now.
No past, but in memory.
No future, but in hope.
All of reality moves in the Now.
Now is eternity’s time keeper.
The Now is all.
The Now is no-thing.
Eternity knows infinity.
Infinity knows eternity.
Reality knows them all.
Reality knows no-thing.
No-thing knows reality.
A call to the world knocks at the Heart, Now.
Now is the time to awaken, and Now is
The only time that it can happen.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Poem by Jared J. Kimble
"Once the quote ends the interpretation begins." My main website: http://www.HeartRealization.com God Only Is.

#10 Da Fire

Da Fire

    lowly monk

  • Members
  • 262 posts

Posted 23 February 2005 - 11:35 PM

Remember I am bouncing around on topics here, and I may miss some important points, but I hope to cover as much as need be.  Please ask any questions you feel are necessary or are not covered here in any of these sections.  Also, I speak of these traditions as something other than religion, but that is up to the reader to chose, I just have a distaste for the word right now.

Communion in general and in practice


I will examine Communion next.  Communion has a few different forms of manifestation.  The first and most important is that of the transcendental kind.  The Communion between two people manifest a tangible nexus of spirit and energy that is unmistakable.  The light of consciousness magnifies between the two or more people that share this reality and even effects people that are not aware of the brightness radiating from a particular person(s); for example in a room full of people that are Communing there will be an air of 'electricity' that even the non enbrightened find hard to ignore.  The Communion is vital to every (valid) esoteric tradition that is out there.  

The Teacher(s) of a particular tradition depends on this form of communication of knowledge to be the only and best way to demonstrate their enbrightenment and to catalyze enbrightenment in the Disciple or aspirant.  Communion is the purpose of all the writings and methods and philosophy that an esoteric tradition offers.  The Communion is the 'goal'.  For it is the nature of reality to be one, yet it is the nature of the human to be separate.  Thus, in order to realize 'God' or 'truth' one must awaken to that fullness of reality now and Commune in, As and of that oneness.  We cannot hold onto ideas and concepts and pretend we are in Cummunion with a Teacher(s) or a particular esoteric tradition.    

The true Communion spans across the gaps of space and time.  The Communion is not distorted by space and time.  Communion is not hendered by a person being on one side of the earth while the another is on the other side.  Communion is the high and universal consciousness that makes way for the true oneness of the universe to manifest in every persons life in a perpetual manner: this can happen right now!  

The Communion awakens as the chakras and kundalini are purged of the ignorance that once haunted the Disciple(s) or aspirant(s) psychology.  The chakra system or spiritual anatomy of each person is the same and universal.  Meaning that each person has the same degree of Communion available and/or the same spiritual anatomy inherent in the human form.  We all have a heart, lungs, and a brain that is found in every human born; hopefully.  In the same way each person has a spiritual anatomy that that correlates in structure to the spiritual anatomy of your mom and dad, and to every human on earth.  Here is a link to a picture I made on my computer that reveals what this anatomy looks like, there are a few versions that may slightly differ, but the anatomy is fully pictured here: http://img239.exs.cx.../8303/aa2ma.jpg

Consequently, the spiritual anatomy is the place that we can focus our attention on and discover the truth of my statement (imho).  It is sometimes called the science of spirit.  Because the spiritual anatomy is present in each person and has a structure that is found to be the same through out all humans.  Although, the experiences related to the spiritual anatomy are relative and ever changing, and a person can be hard pressed to find similar experiences to relate to one esoteric tradition or another.  The point is not to be hung up on a particular experience, but to recognize the eternal reality that is trying to seduce one into awakening now.  

The Communion found in the esoteric traditions depends on this science of the spirit to demonstrate the equality of all those seeking to be enbrightened.  The science of this spiritual anatomy is still being expounded and understood as a growing science that has slowly over the history of mans search is making its way into the general population, not so esoteric as it was 'yesterday'.  Some (maybe very few) psychological sciences are just now beginning to see the correlations of the spiritual anatomy and the types of personalities that are present in the subjects they study.  I have a book called "The Tapestry of the Gods volume 1 {The Seven Rays: An Esoteric Key to Understanding Human Nature}" by Micheal D. Robbins, and I will freely send a copy of this book to anyone asking-just email me and I will send it on its way.  The book is an good start to attempt to bring the correlations of the psychology of the spiritual anatomy into the psychology of science :wink: .  

The Communion that is present between the Teacher and the Disciple is what also manifest the equality of the Teacher and Disciple.  This is a demonstration that there is ultimately no Teacher and no Disciple.  The Communion draws the pseudo separation of the degrees of enbrightenment into a non-extant reality.  Communion is the ultimate key to equality and love and compassion (imho).  For in learning that we are all one we can transcend the egoic superiority.  The Communion that a Teacher offers is the prime method of teaching and the fulfilling of the purpose of the esoteric tradition.


Other forms of Communion

Now, there are some other forms of communion that are not quite the same as the form I described above, but intimately and implicitly related.  One example is that of the catholic tradition.  This kind of Communion is the same as that of the above, yet, the difference is that this is an objective version of Communion.  This Communion is taken into the body via something 'outside' of the body.  When we eat the body and blood (sorry if I am not appealing to the reader at this point, I am trying to keep this a clean dialogue) it is not like eating any old food, but the way that food is no longer different or separate from the body/mind once eaten correlates to the way that the eucharist is now non-separate from you.  The difference is that in the catholic tradition the belief in the eucharist and the transubstantiation are vital to receiveing the transcendental Communion offered in the eucharist.  This form of Communion is not less than the above, but as it is something that has to be taken often, and is presumed to either fade away with time or needs to be reiterated many times; there appears to not be a perpetual Communion, albeit this is false.  

Now this can get sticky right here.  Because in the catholic tradition there is an inherent understanding that they are perpetually in Communion with Jesus.  So, another way of looking at this is that they are also honoring the sacrifice of Jesus by reiterating the ritual of the eucharist.  So, to be careful that we do not take away from the catholic tradition we must understand the dynamics involved with such an Communion.  This kind of Communion is both a perpetual Communion and a reiteration of the establishment of the Communion for the first time.  This gives the catholic tradition a rich heritage to practice, and (imho) is a fine practice of a not so apparent esoteric tradition.    

The next kind of Communion is that of one with a Teacher that has already passed on from 'this' life.  Like some of the eastern traditions that are devoted to Krishna.  These traditions are not looking for another Teacher to come, and presume that the first one is enough.  The christian traditions and some of the buddhist traditions have such a relationship, and many versions of religions from all over the world.  This kind of Communion is also not a lesser kind, but a different form available to those seeking.  The person may even have visions or private revelations about or from the 'dead' Teacher that helps the Disciple(s) to enjoy a greater degree of Communion.  

The primary relationship generated by Communion is the key to each and every esoteric tradition.  The Communion is the pillar that all are derived from and built on, and the hub that each tradition is bound to for stability and enbrightenment.  Ultimately, the Communion is understood to be only the divine.  The one 'God' that is everything and the one 'God' that is freely available to each and all to the same degree.  The one Communion is inherently understood to not be possessed by anyone, and the Communion is known to be offered to each all.  There can never be a monopoly on Communion within any one esoteric tradition.  

The separation of esoteric traditions is found in culture and not in 'God'.  The cultural expression of this Communion gives a rich life to our planet.  It enables us to express our individuality without compromising our Communion as one planet, one universe and one 'God'.  We may find divisions amongst the myriads of cultures, even to the degree that war or fighting happens, but these things come from those that try to keep a monopoly on God and the Communion freely available now.

Communion is what is found as the fulfillment of the esoteric tradition.  And this Communion has many forms.  The point is not to attach to the many methods, rituals, prayers, yogic practices, meditations, philososphies, or religions that spawn from the seeking of this Communion, but to transcend these by virtue of the Communion itSelf.  All the practices in the world are not the end all purpose of the esoteric tradition, they are inherently understood to be sign posts that point the way to God.

regards, Jared.

Until next time; hope I have been charitable to this topic and hope that if I cross any lines during this expoundation of the esoteric tradition(s) that I am immediatley notified.
"Once the quote ends the interpretation begins." My main website: http://www.HeartRealization.com God Only Is.

#11 Da Fire

Da Fire

    lowly monk

  • Members
  • 262 posts

Posted 30 March 2005 - 11:53 PM

Spiritual Anatomy
Here is an image of the full spiritual anatomy that I drew on my computer. Please use this image for quick reference.  
Posted Image


In this section on esoteric traditions I will speak about the spiritual anatomy, and I invite the reader to explore this topic to discover the  relationship that the spiritual anatomy has within some esoteric traditions.  The spiritual anatomy is what is sometimes called the science of spirit in most of the well established traditions.  Albeit, I may refer to other traditions or religions and the relationship that the spiritual anatomy has in their faith, I am not intending on criticizing or supporting any particular religion or esoteric tradition.    

The spiritual anatomy is typically intended to be a science of the spirit which awakens in the human body. The idea is that as the Disciple or aspirant is smelted or purged of ego self the spiritual anatomy will manifest, and ultimately remain open and freely flow conscious energy. This is a sign that is found in many traditions, leading to claims that it is universal.  The sacrifice of the ego via the spiritual anatomy through the theories and practices of the esoteric traditions vary in types and styles.  The ego person makes a vain attempt to be the ruler and controller of the spiritual anatomy, as one might see for themsleves.  The egoic pseudo separation falsely plays the role of the center that everything founded in and on, even the spiritual anatomy.  The spiritual anatomy can be found to be revealed in various degrees through out most of the religions and esoteric traditions found on Earth.  For all those esoteric traditions that go beyond the general public of religion and spirituality you will find the literature and esoteric yogas and meditations and prayers that are specifically designed for purging or awakening specific areas of the spiritual anatomy.  The life and consciousness of the spiritual anatomy is considered a source of the transfiguration of the human body.  And it is the spiritual anatomy and the egoic sense of “I” that the valid and valuable traditions reveal and liberate the Disciple from.

The spiritual anatomy may not be fully known and/or taught in some traditions today.  This is for certain reasons, some positive or negative.  As I speak of the spiritual anatomy here there will be some areas that the reader may have not heard of before or thought existed.  There will be a few links to correlating esoteric traditions at some key points.  

The whole spiritual anatomy in its principle form (imho) manifest in the human body appears to form a cross.  The different degrees of knowledge on the spiritual anatomy have been either passed down or transmitted from Teacher to Disciple throughout history.  Some times in private and secret.  Some times the revelation of the spiritual anatomy and the different dynamics or physics of it are made public; meaning that a group of Disciples or aspirants are present and all experience the same physics of the spiritual anatomy.  These experiences can be understood as part of the process of enbrightenment.  I suggest that spiritual experiences generally go un-noticed by the society at large.  In my opinion the lack of interest about this knowledge is not well known and/or is not believable.  There appears to be a small number of spiritual masters that have spoken about it to varying degrees, or in full.  The point here is that this fullness of the spiritual anatomy should not be kept secret or hidden from the public (imho).  The only reserve I have about general public knowing about the spiritual anatomy is how dangerous the experiences can be without proper guidance.

Apparently there is a basic structure to the spiritual anatomy.  The basic shape that the anatomy appears in the human might be considered as a cross like form.  This basic structural form is how I will suggest the reader view the spiritual anatomy.  There is the vertical line along the spin and the horizontal line across the chest.  The horizontal line across the chest is made up of three hearts.  The vertical line along the spine is made up of five major chakras along the spine, one chakra in the brain cavity and one chakra above the head.  I will explore the vertical line first and then move on to the three hearts later.  

There is to two main lines of physics that the flow of consciousness takes related to the apparent cross like shape on the vertical line.  Along the vertical line of the spiritual anatomy one might find an ascending and descending flow of energy.  The frontal line of the body related to the descending flow of consciousness from the crown chakra along a frontal path and the ascending flow of consciousness related to the kundalini along the spinal line or path along the back of the body.  The kundalini manifests a few specific dynamics that are discovered once it awakens.  The kundalini tends to ascend in a double spiral fashion through six chakras and unites in the eye (sixth chakra or ajna chakra) and opens to the crown star from there.  The double spiral of the kundalini, called ida and pingala, may ascend or descend.  But, the general movement of the double spiral is ascending.  Some of the other dynamics that might appear from the kundalini seem to ascend or descend in a single manner.  In some esoteric traditions it does not matter which direction; remember these are only experiences and tend not to be viewed as the end of the spiritual practice of the aspirant or Disciple.  The last and most profound way the kundalini ascends is directly inside the spinal channel.  In this ascending energy there is a greater opening of the nexus with the crown star above the head and the body ‘below’.  

The sushumna channel, directly in the spine, is suggested that it reveals the unity of the Light of reality when it completely ascends.  A specific sequence of the dynamics is appears to not be necessary because the experiences are usually subjective and personal.  The important point of the spiritual anatomy is that the dynamics are usually understood to be the same for each person.  Another point here is that this spiritual anatomy does not have to be awakened in order for it to be structurally real and manifest in the human.  The spiritual anatomy is actually present in the human form now, and it is complete whether or not the spiritual current is openly and freely flowing without any “blockage”.  Some of the esoteric traditions only speak about the ascending kundalini.  The kundalini is the 'serpent fire' found apparently coiled up at the base of the spine or the base of the vertical line of the spiritual anatomy.  The kundalini sometimes or usually communicates with the individual through archetypal images and myths that lure the Disciple into the unconscious realm of darkness.  Once the Disciple is aware of the energy related to the kundalini the myths and archetypal images are suggestively viewed with a transcendent eye, the Disciple maybe allowed to truly dive into the particular esoteric traditions philosophy and theories.  The signs and experiences related to an awakening kundalini suggest just the beginning of the spiritual journey.  Most of the esoteric traditions will at least have some general knowledge of the kundalini and possibly some real experience with it.

followed into the next post, regards, Jared.
"Once the quote ends the interpretation begins." My main website: http://www.HeartRealization.com God Only Is.

#12 Da Fire

Da Fire

    lowly monk

  • Members
  • 262 posts

Posted 30 March 2005 - 11:55 PM

To reiterate the dynamics of the kundalini I will refer to them again.  In the first manner I will talk about the kundalini ascends is in a double spiral around the (spine) vertical line of the spiritual anatomy up into the eye.  At the point of the eye the two heads (ida and pingala) are joined together and united in the transcendental light of the eye.  Each ascending line that is grounded at the base of the vertical line may ascend in a single manner or even descend from the eye as a single line spiraling downward or upward around the spine.  The number and apparently chaotic myriad of experiences that result from the kundalini are infinite and meaningless, unless the experiences are transcended.  The other major flow of light and energy along the vertical line of the spiritual anatomy is the descending flow along the frontal region of the human body.  The energy flowing here comes from above the body, from the crown star just above your head.  This energy is a major worker of the spiritual process.  The descending flow and experiences with the dynamics of this are within some esoteric traditions.  The fullness of the flow of consciousness appears like a circle in and of the body/mind.  The circle appears as an ascending flow along the spine or back of the body and the descending along the frontal line in the body.  The more advanced aspirants engaged in spiritual practice might enjoy the descending open-ness of this part of the spiritual anatomy.  

The physics of the two lines that spiral around the spine in the vertical line of the spiritual anatomy (ascending or descending) are the basis for enlightenment within certain esoteric traditions in which the whole tradition is founded around.  The kundalini experience or any number of experiences of the kundalini are just part of the process of enbrightenment and are not ends or ‘peek’ experiences, and I invite the reader to explore these subtle energies with an open mind and heart.  To certain particular esoteric traditions the ascending of the serpent fire from the base of the spine is equated with enlightenment.  These traditions are suggested to be understood as covering part of the whole spiritual anatomy in the way I dialogue on it here and related to my direct experiences with it, thus, being an incomplete tradition although they may be a valid and valuable tradition with a lineage of Teachers that are “ascended masters”.  

The dynamics of the serpent fire may also ascend directly within the spinal channel (sushumna nadi).  This is a more direct experience of God’s light and bliss, yet still only incomplete.  These esoteric traditions that find the double spiral around the vertical line to be secondary to the direct inner ascension of the serpent fire are of a higher order of spiritual knowledge.  These traditions are also valid and valuable, yet we should take notice of the lack of the full revelation of the spiritual anatomy that is found in these traditions if they ignore or are ignorant of the three hearts, especially the right heart.  The inner dynamics of the kundalini within the vertical line of the anatomy can bring about profound experiences of God and lights or any number of strange or familiar beings in the more subtle planes of reality.  As I have said before, none of these experiences can be recognized as enbrightenment or truth or God’s full revelation.

The kundalini  has seven major chakras that it involves upon awakening.  The first chakra (muladhara chakra) is at the base of the vertical line, and located at and in the region of the anal.  The second (svadhisthana chakra) is located in the region of the sexual organs, midway between the navel and the anal.  The third (manipura chakra) chakra is located at the navel.  The fourth (anahata chakra) chakra is located in the center of the chest, just left of the physical heart around the sternum.  The fifth (vishuddha chakra) chakra is located in throat region.  The sixth (ajna chakra) chakra is located in the forehead or deep in the center of the brain cavity.  The seventh (sahasrara chakra) chakra is located above the head, like a star shining down into the Human form.  The eye (ajna) chakra is the place that the kundalini enters the unified field of light, thus, the dual nature of the psychic energy of the kundalini is transcended and in a way does not exist beyond the eye (ajna) chakra.  The six chakras below the seventh (sahasrara) chakra are the major ones affected when experiencing the kundalini.  And the seventh chakra, sometimes believed to be situated on the head when in actuality that is where it enters, is realized and perpetually manifest in ones life when the experience of real transcendence begins to take root in your human form.  

The chakras can be felt to be swirling centers of consciousness.  The chakras are correlated with different colors and increasing degrees of more and more subtle planes of reality.  The interacting psychic energy of the chakras and the movement of the kundalini result in the emotional and general character of the individual human form.  Certain people in some of the traditions have a seeing power to look into the person’s spiritual anatomy and ‘read’ their spiritual understanding.  The seven chakras are experienced and purged or cleansed by the open and ego transcending spiritual practice via the associated Teachings of the esoteric tradition.  The awakening of the kundalini and the purging of the chakras can be catalyzed by an already awakened Teacher.  And the Disciple sits in the company of the Teacher for the siddhas (blessing powers) that speed along their spiritual journey.  The chakras are centers of psychic energy that, once fully transcended and the whole spiritual anatomy awaken and are realized, God subjects unto itSelf while the body is perpetually free of the ego habit.  

God is the actual mover and shaker, and the esoteric traditions have faith in God that it will be there when they die spiritually.  God gives the proper yoke unto the unruly and apparently chaotic energy of the kundalini and the chakras.  The kundalini energy may appear to be a reactive form.  It is because of the dual nature of the kundalini that the ego finds it so appealing.  Therefore, you can find many esoteric traditions that are ‘trapped’ by the egoic activity of exploiting these energies and experiences for self pleasure and fulfillment.  The whole of the vertical line of the spiritual anatomy manifests as a circle of body and mind.  The general path of the circle of the kundalini energy descends along a frontal path and ascends along the spine.  

I will give a simple and general pranayama practice that you may begin to practice.  Start out breathing through the nose only, eyes open or closed.   When you inhale draw the energy from the eye (ajna) chakra downward all the way to the base of the vertical line at the anal (muladhara chakra), while remaining transcended in the crown star (sahasrara chakra) above the head.  You may hold the energy there for a short hold of breath and then upon the exhale consciously ascend the energy back up directly in the spine into the light of the eye.  You may also hold the breath momentarily and then repeat the exercise for an amount of time that you are comfortable with.  You may sit on the floor with legs crossed or in a chair, but the point here is to have your back straight and the spinal column resting in the natural “s” like shape, and to be calm and un-reactive to the mental phenomena that may appear.  There are many methods and practices that enable the Disciple to awaken and begin the smelting process of cleaning and purging the whole spiritual anatomy.  I have given a simple exercise that can be practiced by anyone curious about the reality of what I speak.    

The free flow of God’s divine light and fire through the kundalini and chakras is generally understood to render the whole person to remain clog free throughout their daily activity and during sleep.  In other words, the ego self creates clogs and blockage within the spiritual anatomy.  This leads to an ignorant and distorted view of God and the universe, and especially one’s Self.  The ego transcending practices and yogic methods of philosophy and theory are designed to open up the whole vertical line of the spiritual anatomy.  Any esoteric tradition that has value {imho} will surely explore and have a well informed gathering of literature and leelas on the vertical line of the cross like form of spirit inherent in the human.  The consequence of this is well informed Disciples, learned in the spiritual dynamics of the kundalini, and the transcendence of ego.

followed into the next post, regards, Jared.
"Once the quote ends the interpretation begins." My main website: http://www.HeartRealization.com God Only Is.

#13 Da Fire

Da Fire

    lowly monk

  • Members
  • 262 posts

Posted 30 March 2005 - 11:59 PM

The Three Hearts are One


There are three hearts in the Heart region of the spiritual anatomy.  The right heart, the left heart and the center heart.  The three hearts may appear similar to the chakras, meaning locations of consciousness.  The right heart is consciously located on the right side of the chest powerfully grounded in God’s light.  This is the seat of the transcendental heart of the three hearts.  The center heart is the binding nexus of the spiritual anatomy; it is the hub for the whole anatomy.  The center heart (anahata chakra) is the root where the transcendental emotion of love is found.  The left heart is a sign that the beginning of the transfiguration of the flesh is starting and has begun; this heart of consciousness usually awakens in the first stages of enbrightenment.  Of the three hearts the right is the seat of the resurrection into the crown star.  The spirit current that resurrects from the right heart is a sign of actual enbrightenment, and only noted in very few esoteric traditions.  It ascends (resurrects) up in an “S” like form, it is the shape of one complete wave.  It has one crest and one trough, thus, the shape of a wave: analogy is like that of an archetypal image.  The resurrection current is simple and unified like a wave, flowing with a tremendous everlasting selfless creation of reality.  The resurrection current ascends up into the crown star (sahasrara chakra) and then descends down into the human body.  This is a very strange reality to speak of and I hesitate to say much more.  The three hearts function as one heart, and the three hearts constitute the heart region or horizontal line of the spiritual anatomy.  To say any more would be misleading.  

Appearing separately the three hearts awaken throughout the process of enbrightenment/enlightenment, and the process and literature found in some esoteric traditions will correlate with the ideas I have presented to the reader here.  The right heart Is a sign of the final stage of enbrightenment either approaching or actually manifest: what I call the resurrection stage.  God has no location of the ultimate transcendent transcending of transcendence: you can name it what you want, but God can never be named, located, found or looked for as though God has a form like us.  Not many esoteric traditions speak of the seventh stage of enbrightenment, but that does not make them any less valid or valuable to the Disciple.  I am not about judging different esoteric traditions, and because of the different degrees of Teaching on the spiritual anatomy we are forced to see some as focused on different qualities of enbrightenment.

The nature of the spiritual anatomy maybe viewed and is suggested as a view of the manifestation of the complete revelation of the physics and/or dynamics of spirit found in the human form.  The spiritual anatomy is a side effect of a historical life altering process that manifest an actual change in the human form and condition.  Therefore, many esoteric traditions recognize the correlations that occur along with awakening or enlightenment and the manifest changes that appear via the spiritual anatomy.  This whole system will fire up and actually be discovered by any truly devoted esoteric tradition that has went into the most profound qualities of God and nature.  The anatomy is a natural, cosmic and temporary, yet still a perpetual flower, of an eternal God that enlivens the human being.  The paradoxical reality of the correlations of the spiritual anatomy and enbrightenment are an implicit substance that all traditions seem to discover.  The reason for the paradoxical quality is because many Teachers will speak of enlightenment as something that is a perpetual reality right now, thus, to presume that there is time involved with enlightenment would be to ignore the eternal quality.  The spiritual anatomy is the time fulfilled tradition that recognizes the other temporary quality of the process of enlightenment.  Consequently, we have an eternal and temporary nature inherently found in enbrightenment, henceforth, both ideas are correct.  If we take only one side of the story we miss out on an important revelation of Truth.  Thus, as we walk through many esoteric traditions and learn about their philosophy and practices we should be aware that we maybe reading about half of the story, and remember not to judge the tradition based on the idea that part of the full spiritual anatomy is missing from their practice.  It is up to the individual to account for their own practice and the life that is awakened during that practice.  

Hope you enjoyed this discussion.  There is tons of info on the many ideas of the spiritual anatomy.  I have given a general synopsis of the science of spirit, but keep in mind there are certain concepts I did not touch on here for what ever reasons.  Therefore, for further exploration of this subject I suggest experience for yourself, and a bit more of an in depth research of the subject.  

Posted Image

Your friend, Jared.
"Once the quote ends the interpretation begins." My main website: http://www.HeartRealization.com God Only Is.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users