14 replies to this topic

[Jewels Vern]

I have been hanging around here for a while because the users seem to be at least as intelligent as I am and very well mannered about discussing differing opinions. My problem is that I have no background in discussing philosophies; my background involves sorting through fallacies and misinformation to find gems of knowledge, or at least useful conclusions. My colleagues in this forum seem more dedicated to just juggling the concepts without looking for any conclusion or identifying whether one concept is more important than another.

In other forums I have often remarked that "We gather here to drink our punch together, but some of the members seem to be dedicated to the proposition that every punch bowl must be shat into." In The Academy I often feel like I am that member that I complain about.

What do you think?

[davidm]

Jewels Vern said:

I have been hanging around here for a while because the users seem to be at least as intelligent as I am and very well mannered about discussing differing opinions. My problem is that I have no background in discussing philosophies; my background involves sorting through fallacies and misinformation to find gems of knowledge, or at least useful conclusions. My colleagues in this forum seem more dedicated to just juggling the concepts without looking for any conclusion or identifying whether one concept is more important than another.

In other forums I have often remarked that "We gather here to drink our punch together, but some of the members seem to be dedicated to the proposition that every punch bowl must be shat into." In The Academy I often feel like I am that member that I complain about.

What do you think?

You don't need a background in philosophy to post here. All you need is to participate in a spirit of honest inquiry, which, so far as I am aware, you do.

Don't be so hard on yourself! Sheesh!

[Michael S. Pearl]

If you find that your mind is stimulated/challenged by the content of this site, then you belong here. If you find that your mind is stimulated/challenged in formulating responses to anything you read here, then you belong here.

Michael

[Mathsteach2]

A captivating thread title, for me anyway, Jewels Vern, and the two responses so far support and confirm my interest in this site.

I have two problems, however. The first is that there is so much of interest and value here to read, I visit frequently but do little posting! The second is a problem of my own making, and this thread gives me the chance to say so. It is that I have joined in on one or two threads, one started by myself in the Librarian forum, on Paul Feyerabend and my science teaching, but even in my retirement I find I am so occupied in RL I do not get back often enough to keep up the conversation.

I trust other posters in these threads in which I have joined are patient persons! In an abusive teachers' website in the UK, if I did not reply pretty well immediately, nearly at the rate of live chat, to questions or criticisms, I was accused of either running away from the heat, or I had no answer anyway!

[Parody of Language]

Jewels Vern, that's an interesting point, about us not wanting to come to conclusions. I think, personally, that's what has come about after seeing other people come to so many self-indulgent conclusions, that I stick to the conceptual level. But, it's not as if I avoid coming to conclusions, but that I can't come to a conclusion without, the moment I come to write it down, already seeing possible problems with it where I feel that more analysis and more conceptualizing is needed.

So, I think it's sort of a taste of some kind with me, there's always the risk that, when you come to a conclusion, that you're just rationalizing your own prejudices and convictions. That's why I rarely discuss morality in the way it's usually discussed, I look at conventional ethicists with a certain amount of disdain. Afterall, who would, after all their reasoning, conclude in the end that murder is legitimate, or that it's okay to hurt people, or that servitude is bad. This, to me, shows that coming to moral conclusions is really a sort of dishonesty, and isn't something that a genuine intellectual would partake in. So I can barely read a work of ethics without feeling something wrong and slimey at the pit of my stomach, and there might not be anything wrong with the work itself, but eating one plate of spoiled food spoils the rest.

And there's the search for some knowledge that is truly lasting and substantial, not a whim of the moment, of how you feel about things that day; nor even a whim of your life, contingent on your own personal influences, on the kind of person you are. You don't want to end up like one of those people who, having lived their life settled on one set of propositions, hears a counterargument late in life that puts one's whole life in vain.

So, you know, I don't take what I write here all too seriously, I might come to a conclusion just to test it out, to feel it out. Some may consider me superficial just for doing so, but it doesn't really matter what they think. And ultimately, it's not really the truth, but my honesty, that concerns me. Things are always too complicated, to fragmentary, to really understand them. Compared to the task, the difference between the individual amateur and the cumulative science of mankind is not so large. So, if I repress my conclusions, it's probably because it doesn't matter a whole lot what I think either.

[DaveT]

No, you don't. Your accepted standard of debate is far below the accepted standard required by the forum.

[Chato]

DaveT, on 26 September 2010 - 11:25 PM, said:

No, you don't. Your accepted standard of debate is far below the accepted standard required by the forum.

I tentatively disagree. I have only seen two of his posts, and both rely on the Mise Institute as a source of fact, rather then what they are; opinion. But he has not answered this criticism of his source. Two posters, including myself, have pointed out at least one topic where the Mise institute opinion is not only false but fraudulent. What Mr. Vern's "standard of debate" actually is would be his response to this debunking of the Institute as a source of fact, as opposed to a source of opinion.

Dave

[DaveT]

Chato, on 27 September 2010 - 08:45 PM, said:

DaveT, on 26 September 2010 - 11:25 PM, said:

No, you don't. Your accepted standard of debate is far below the accepted standard required by the forum.

I tentatively disagree. I have only seen two of his posts, and both rely on the Mise Institute as a source of fact, rather then what they are; opinion. But he has not answered this criticism of his source. Two posters, including myself, have pointed out at least one topic where the Mise institute opinion is not only false but fraudulent. What Mr. Vern's "standard of debate" actually is would be his response to this debunking of the Institute as a source of fact, as opposed to a source of opinion.

Dave

Fair enough, but until he responds I stand by my original statement.

[Michio]

DaveT, on 26 September 2010 - 11:25 PM, said:

No, you don't. Your accepted standard of debate is far below the accepted standard required by the forum.

やれやれ。。。

[Big Blooming Blighter]

The thing about the Japanese, is that labouring the point gives a whole bunch of them a severe headache.

The ones in the image above are, thus, waiting for Michio to pay for their Paracetamol.

[DaveT]

Did Michio just give me a mass animé facepalm for saying that Jewels has accepts lower standards than the rest of us when it comes to discussion and debate?

He did!

[Chato]

Michio, on 27 September 2010 - 09:46 PM, said:

DaveT, on 26 September 2010 - 11:25 PM, said:

No, you don't. Your accepted standard of debate is far below the accepted standard required by the forum.

やれやれ。。。

Michio, tell me you made that collage just for this post. I need an opportunity to faint...

Dave

[the sad clown]

Chato, on 27 September 2010 - 11:18 PM, said:

Michio, tell me you made that collage just for this post. I need an opportunity to faint...

It was impressive.

[Michio]

Chato, on 27 September 2010 - 11:18 PM, said:

Michio, on 27 September 2010 - 09:46 PM, said:

DaveT, on 26 September 2010 - 11:25 PM, said:

No, you don't. Your accepted standard of debate is far below the accepted standard required by the forum.

やれやれ。。。

Michio, tell me you made that collage just for this post. I need an opportunity to faint...

Dave

I wish I had that much free time.

[The Heretic]

Michio, on 28 September 2010 - 12:52 AM, said:

I wish I had that much free time.

Want to bet that Kyon from the Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya is the leading face-palm-artist of the collage?