16 replies to this topic

[davidm]

*Cue theme music* Welcome to "Bob Free in Liberty Land," an exciting, wacky new online series exploring the adventures of Bob Free and others in a world in which Libertarianism has prevailed. This wonderful new world is called Liberty Land. Let's join Bob now, shall we, in this brave new world! *Theme music fades*

Bob Free in Liberty Land


Bob Free woke up, and began to get ready for work. In the bathroom, he turned on the shower faucets, but nothing came out except a barckish stream that quickly petered out. No water came out of the faucets in the sink, either.

He called his water company.

“Hold the line a moment, Mr. Free,” the operator said.

Then Jim Liquidity, the owner of the water company, came on the line.

Free explained the problem.

“There is no mechanical problem, Bob,” Liquidity told Free. “I’ve canceled your contract with us, and cut off your water supply.”

“But why?”

“Because I don’t like the cut of your jib, Bob. I don’t want your business.”

Free protested, but Liquidity cut him off, saying, “It has come to my attention that you are a Negro, Bob. I didn’t know that when I agreed to sell water to you. I don’t sell to Negroes. Sorry.”

“I’ll take you to court!” Free raged.

“Bob, all the courts are privatized now. The  one I’ve hired naturally supports all my claims. What else would they do, given that I pay their bills?”

Free spluttered in frustration, but Liquidity cut him off, saying: “Bob, we live in Liberty Land. There are at least 15 other water companies vying for your business. I’m sure not all of them hate Negroes, and would be willing to sell water to you. I suggest you try one of them.”

“But it will take a few days to hook up new water service! What am I supposed to do in the meantime? Go without water?”

“That’s your problem, Bob. Remember, you don’t have a right to water. All you — all any of us — have is a right to life (thought not health care or even drinking water), a right to liberty and a right to private property.”

“How do you figure those are the only rights we have?”

“Bob, it’s self-evident. Natural rights, and those three particular rights only, are axiomatically true. Libertarianism is like Euclid’s theorem.”

“You’re a lunatic,” Free said.

“By the way, Bob, there is something else you should know.”

“What?”

“I’ve branched out from the water business into the sidewalk business. I’ve bought up all the toll sidewalks that surround your house.”

“So?”

“I don’t want you walking on the toll sidewalks, Bob. The electronic toll booths have been programmed to disable you charge card. Any attempt by you to walk on my sidewalks will constitute trespassing, a punishable offense because if you walk on the sidewalks that I own, you will violate my natural rights.”

“But I have to walk on at least one of them,” Free pointed out.  They surround my house."

“That’s really not my problem, Bob.”

"B-ut," Free spluttered into the phone, "I'm late for a lecture on the invalidity of the labor theory of value!"

However, Liquidity had hung up.

*Cue theme music* Join us next time for a new installment of Bob Free in Libery Land! *Theme music fades*

[Selfless Egoist]

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“Bob, all the courts are privatized now. The one I’ve hired naturally supports all my claims. What else would they do, given that I pay their bills?”

Ok let's get rid of the term "privatization", because it usually refers state-granted monopolies given to "private firms", like the Gas Company, or Bell Telephone company.

Second off, why would a firm give a crap about one of its many customers' "claims"? And also, why would this guarantee a firm to act upon these claims?

You are just making up factors, I know this is just a story, but its rather annoying.

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“There is no mechanical problem, Bob,” Liquidity told Free. “I’ve canceled your contract with us, and cut off your water supply.”

Oh he owns the water supply too? How convenient?

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“But it will take a few days to hook up new water service! What am I supposed to do in the meantime? Go without water?”

“That’s your problem, Bob. Remember, you don’t have a right to water. All you — all any of us — have is a right to life (thought not health care or even drinking water), a right to liberty and a right to private property.”

What is meant by "right to water"? It doesn't matter if you have a "right to water", if there is no one to supply with you water, then obviously you don't some mystical "right" to it.

You are referencing "rights", so I assuming you are taking a jab at deontological libertarians, which is a theory I don't subscribe to. I am not principally opposed to coercion or violence.

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“Bob, it’s self-evident. Natural rights, and those three particular rights only, are axiomatically true. Libertarianism is like Euclid’s theorem.”

“You’re a lunatic,” Free said.

Yes, people who believe in morality are lunatics I agree

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“I’ve branched out from the water business into the sidewalk business. I’ve bought up all the toll sidewalks that surround your house.”

I find it highly unlikely Bob would just ignore this telltale sign. Surely, someone must have known, noticed, or heard word about Liquidity's plan to buy all the sidewalks around his house? Wouldn't that raise alarm with Bob Free?

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“I don’t want you walking on the toll sidewalks, Bob. The electronic toll booths have been programmed to disable you charge card. Any attempt by you to walk on my sidewalks will constitute trespassing, a punishable offense because if you walk on the sidewalks that I own, you will violate my natural rights.”

Natural rights don't exist. If Liquidity is doing something like this, and the relevant agencies that support Bob, or the agency that supports Liquidity does not wish to be known as a racist firm, they will simply side with Bob and not arrest Bob when walking on the sidewalk. A multitude of things can happen.

I know this is a "story", so please don't use as an argument against a stateless society, because I can make up "stories" too and use them as evidence against a statist society.

Edited by Selfless Egoist, 20 August 2010 - 02:43 PM.

[The Heretic]

Selfless Egoist, on 20 August 2010 - 02:42 PM, said:

I know this is a "story", so please don't use as an argument against a stateless society, because I can make up "stories" too and use them as evidence against a statist society.

I believe such "stories" are far more effective than straightforward non-fiction works. So I recommend you try your hand at a story and give old David a bitter taste of his own medication.

[DaveT]

Selfless Egoist, on 20 August 2010 - 02:42 PM, said:

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“Bob, all the courts are privatized now. The one I’ve hired naturally supports all my claims. What else would they do, given that I pay their bills?”

Ok let's get rid of the term "privatization", because it usually refers state-granted monopolies given to "private firms", like the Gas Company, or Bell Telephone company.

Second off, why would a firm give a crap about one of its many customers' "claims"? And also, why would this guarantee a firm to act upon these claims?

Well, when the customer pays the firm's bills (with the firm in this case being the courts), what else is the firm going to do? They could either go through the cases for the paying customer, make sure he wins every time (which would be easy), and have him pay the bills, or they can do nothing, have no cases, make no money, and go bankrupt.

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“There is no mechanical problem, Bob,” Liquidity told Free. “I’ve canceled your contract with us, and cut off your water supply.”

Oh he owns the water supply too? How convenient?

Yes, the owner of the water company owns the supply from the company. How very convenient indeed.  

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“But it will take a few days to hook up new water service! What am I supposed to do in the meantime? Go without water?”

“That’s your problem, Bob. Remember, you don’t have a right to water. All you — all any of us — have is a right to life (thought not health care or even drinking water), a right to liberty and a right to private property.”

What is meant by "right to water"? It doesn't matter if you have a "right to water", if there is no one to supply with you water, then obviously you don't some mystical "right" to it.

But there is somebody to supply it, so the guy should have a mystical right to it (not an ordinary right, because they don't exist - just a magnificent, magical, mystical right)

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“Bob, it’s self-evident. Natural rights, and those three particular rights only, are axiomatically true. Libertarianism is like Euclid’s theorem.”

“You’re a lunatic,” Free said.

Yes, people who believe in morality are lunatics I agree

Those are the words of an evil man!

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“I’ve branched out from the water business into the sidewalk business. I’ve bought up all the toll sidewalks that surround your house.”

I find it highly unlikely Bob would just ignore this telltale sign. Surely, someone must have known, noticed, or heard word about Liquidity's plan to buy all the sidewalks around his house? Wouldn't that raise alarm with Bob Free?

The rest of the story gives me the impression that by the time Bob would have found out about it, there would have been nothing he could do. Oh, and it's a story. Oh, and remind me never to watch District 9 with you.

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“I don’t want you walking on the toll sidewalks, Bob. The electronic toll booths have been programmed to disable you charge card. Any attempt by you to walk on my sidewalks will constitute trespassing, a punishable offense because if you walk on the sidewalks that I own, you will violate my natural rights.”

Natural rights don't exist.

Really? Why not? Why, then, do we bother to have human rights laws, etc?

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If Liquidity is doing something like this, and the relevant agencies that support Bob, or the agency that supports Liquidity does not wish to be known as a racist firm, they will simply side with Bob and not arrest Bob when walking on the sidewalk. A multitude of things can happen.

But Bob isn't paying their bills, and Bob doesn't own anything/body, so nobody stands to make a facilitate financial gains by siding with Bob.

[Big Blooming Blighter]

First threat to the Irony Meter

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You are just making up factors, I know this is just a story

Second threat to the Irony Meter


(After a lengthy diatribe arguing against davidm)

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I know this is a "story", so please don't use as an argument

[DaveT]

There's only way to stop people writing satires of Libertarianism such as the one Davidm has created.

Murder Glenn Beck!

[Big Blooming Blighter]

Now, there's a paradox

The killing of Glenn Beck would not be immoral.

In fact, it's the right thing to do, in itself, it would be condoned by the virtuous, and it can only have wonderfully positive consequences.

Hence, it is moral to kill Glenn Beck.

Yet, it would be illegal under US law.

Hence, we are torn by a conflict between state based morality and all other types of morality.

[David Cooper]

davidm, on 20 August 2010 - 02:24 PM, said:

Bob Free woke up, and began to get ready for work. In the bathroom, he turned on the shower faucets, but nothing came out except a barckish stream that quickly petered out. No water came out of the faucets in the sink, either.

Is that the Usanian for brackish?

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“That’s your problem, Bob. Remember, you don’t have a right to water. All you — all any of us — have is a right to life (thought not health care or even drinking water), a right to liberty and a right to private property.”

“I’ve branched out from the water business into the sidewalk business. I’ve bought up all the toll sidewalks that surround your house.”

“So?”

“I don’t want you walking on the toll sidewalks, Bob. The electronic toll booths have been programmed to disable you charge card. Any attempt by you to walk on my sidewalks will constitute trespassing, a punishable offense because if you walk on the sidewalks that I own, you will violate my natural rights.”

“But I have to walk on at least one of them,” Free pointed out.  They surround my house."

Another typing error in bold which you should still be able to correct if you're quick.

Out of interest, are there altitude limits to trespass? Has he bought up the air space all round and over the building, and the ground underneath it? If so, that leads to a question about what the right to liberty means. If all the space and land elsewhere is owned in the same way and there is no public space left, can everyone be kept trapped in their houses and still be considered to be free? Clearly the answer is no, because if I invite you round to my house and you can't get out of yours or into mine because someone's bought all the sidewalks, you aren't free. Buying up all the sidewalks round someone's house if there's no other reasonable way for them to get in and out is a violation of that person's liberty.

[davidm]

*Organ music swells* Welcome to another episode of Bob Free in Liberty Land! When we left our hero Bob at the end of Episode One, his water and sidewalk access had been cut off by the wily entrepreneur Jim Liquidity. How will Bob cope? Let’s listen in: *Organ music fades out*

Bob Free in Liberty Land

EPISODE 2

Free hung up the phone, and gazed out the window.

The view chilled him.

Numerous signs were lined up in front of the sidewalk, each sign about five feet apart from the others and facing his house. PRIVATE PROPERTY, the signs said in big, red letters. NO TRESPASSING.

No trespassing.

On the road beyond the sidewalk, truckloads of private police, bought and paid for by Liquidity, prowled the premises. Free knew that these were private police employed by Blackwater Inc.

It was the same firm that, hired by the United States military but legally beholden to no government, had wantonly sprayed gunfire into a crowd of Iraqis in Baghdad’s Mansour Square in Baghdad during the Iraq war, killing 17 civilians. The killers had gone free.

That had happened many years ago, when governments still existed before the Libertarian Revolution; but at the time a legal loophole exempted Blackwater from the oppressive oversight of any state.

Now, no states existed at all, anywhere.

People were free.

Free watched the trucks circling about. The Blackwater police were brandishing M-16 rifles, ready to pick off trespassers on Liquidity’s sidewalks.

Free thought about calling his own police.

As he did, his bowels turned to water.

Free did not make a lot of money and, because he was black, many  police forces that he could afford to hire refused to do business with him. He had been forced to contract with Cut-Rate Cops Inc. They were cheap, but they weren’t very good. Much of the force did not even have weapons. They waved broomsticks instead, to simulate rifles, and most of the Cut-Rate cops were constantly drunk.

Free checked the other windows of his house. Wherever he looked, he saw the No Trespassing signs, and the Blackwater police patrolling.

I’m trapped, Free thought, the panic rising within him. I’m trapped inside my own house.

*Organ music swells* Holy Hothouse, Batman! What will Bob do? Don’t miss our next installment of Bob Free in Liberty Land! *Organ music fades out*

[DaveT]

Next time in Bob Free in Liberty Land, poor people agree to replace their socialist health care system with a libertarian one, then suddenly all need expensive life-saving treatment. Left to die, and told they deserve it for being poor, is there any hope for these people?

(Spoiler: Nope. They all die.)

[davidm]

Politics aside, I'm sorry Bob's bowels turned to water. Given all his other problems, shitting all over his own house just makes things worse.

[davidm]

DaveT, on 16 February 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

Next time in Bob Free in Liberty Land, poor people agree to replace their socialist health care system with a libertarian one, then suddenly all need expensive life-saving treatment. Left to die, and told they deserve it for being poor, is there any hope for these people?

(Spoiler: Nope. They all die.)

In the real world, at one of the recent Republican debates,  the audience cheered a scenario in which a person who could not afford health care was left to die.

[DaveT]

Somewhat related to this topic. Try watching this video without gaining just a tiny desire to murder Stefan Molyneux, and all his fans.



ETA: I suppose a video description is necessary:

Want a propaganda video that is face-palmingly painful to watch, and uses disgustingly emotive language and images (not to mention strawman attacks where feasible) in place of real arguments? Ladies and gentlemen, take the time to become familiar with Stefan Molyneux!

Thinking himself to be the saviour of philosophy, and some kind of ethical superhero, Molyneux is a 2nd-rate "philosopher" (and I use the term loosely) whose fame amongst the laymen (for he is considered quite insignificant amongst actual philosophers) is due to a heavy, well-organised marketing campaign, the cult-like mindset of his followers, and the fact that there are thousands of people out there who couldn't distinguish between a good arguer and a good rhetorician if the entire cast of Sesame Street were to help them out.

Edited by DaveT, 10 March 2012 - 05:42 PM.

[DaveT]

If I were a Libertarian, I would probably read Bob Free, and then say something along the lines of, er...

Nonsense. Laughable. This is the tale from Apocalypse about the evil greedy private individual, who decides to persecute minorities. He would soon be 'rewarded' for this by losing all his clients, thats if the board of directors hadn't chucked him out first. He would rely on getting his goods and services from other areas of the community, who would have seen what he had done and blacklisted him, leaving him socially and economically ostracized. You can only survive in a free market if you can provide a really good service at a price people are willing to pay. And that price would be constantly going lower as the abolition of the State along with corporations in their present form would allow for much increased competition, thus squeezing out profits benefiting the consumer greatly which would lead to increased national wealth. Statism has FAILED. The game is up. We're heading quickly down the road to Fascism. This has happened before. And it will happen again. Billions will pay the price. Have you not heard of the elites depopulation plans? Billions are gonna die. And the reason=Statism.

[Scotty]

Too bad the police department, now corporate owned, enforces the laws of not paying for services.
If you don't pay for the police, you get no protection from the other corporate police.


-Scott

[DaveT]

Well, since Bob Free appears to be dead, here's something related that some here (especially ) might like.

http://www.mcsweeney...les/ayn-randers

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Dear Ayn,

I’m dating a man who I think I love, but I’m afraid he’s having an affair. He comes home late, he acts suspiciously, and he even has red lipstick on his collar. Should I confront him or just hope for the best?

— County Affair

Dear County,

Red lipstick? Your husband is a communist. Divorce him and sell his clothes, children, and pens to make money to spend on cars, human slaves, and bigger pens. This will simultaneously stimulate the economy and punish the slaves for not having jobs. Slaves: what lazybones!

Hope this helps,
Ayn,

[davidm]

I'll dash off Bob as a 20,000-word novella, with Ayn Rand as an advice columnist.