I didn't plan it out, *I don't think*. I *did* come back to the thread consciously after thinking. As I wrote before, "I get steamed, I turn away, I turn back, I'm not alone." No excuses for any who do this.
I apologize, and will accept any sanctions you feel are necessary.
If this post is better off elsewhere, I hope someone will move it for me.
These ideas have dominated the whole day's prayer || meditation time... Campanella, instead of focusing on the idea of 'debt' what if we shift focus to the idea of infinite obedience and humility as they relate to love and faithfulness? In other words, is Christianity about debt, or love and faithfulness? If choosing the latter, how better to faithfully love an infinite God than through obedience and humility? (I believe the cross is mainly about obedience and humility.)
I think Christians should have sidestepped the debt concept, perhaps, because it is a holdover from Mosaic law. The debt we owe is love. In pointing this out, Campanella has strengthened this conviction of mine.
(qualia, I am guessing that you are trying to get to firmer ground concerning 'ineffability'? Whether or not you are, I'm still stuck on your previous post...)
This, for me, was|is a deeply absorbing post. It deserves several threads of its own I think. qualia, before I start picking it apart and quoting you out of context (again!) do you want to start any new threads of your own? Thanks, man.  Oops, too late for that...[end of edit]
Stop worrying. As a professional scientist I journal my intuition, ideas and impressions. Some of them have turned out to be flat wrong. Some of them have turned into patents. It is important to record them all during the process of discovery.
I don't see anything to debate here. You've encapsulated a portion of Christian theology very well.
Amen. But there's also the internal problem: Is an unexamined faith a faith worth having? Do insular religious leaders help or hurt the cause of faith? I for one do not think they help.
Although I haven't met anyone personally who has "de-converted", "lost the faith" or whatever term one might choose to describe the process, I have corresponded with several online. What is extremely interesting to me is that the very questioning process that lead them to "fall away" has lead me to "fall toward". It (the questioning process) appears to behave as spiritual electrolyte in a Galvanic-like process.
(Please, reader, allow that matters of faith are personal matters. If these words seem ridiculous to you, I understand. I am trying to be as open about personal things as possible.)
As I have been praying about 'blood' I sense God asking me how I think He should have acted.
Blood sacrifice was part of many different cultures and religions in ancient times. Even to this day, 'blood' connotes a deadly seriousness of intent-- "blood brothers," "blood feud," "blood oath," "out for blood," "playing for blood."
When we connect the two words, 'spiritual' and 'evolution', all kinds of ideas come to us. One is that man's spirituality gave him some sort of competitive advantage, whether or not the objects of man's genuflections exist at all. I'll buy that. Another is that man is evolving spiritually toward the 'Godhead'. I can sort of buy that one, except I can't see that we'll never get there without help from God.
If it is the case that blood sacrifice is deeply ingrained as a human archetype, then how did it come to be that way? From a theistic point of view, blood sacrifice appears to have been important to God, and that is why he put it in our earliest ancestors, although I don't (yet) claim to know why.
God is way more in this relationship "for blood" than we are. And that is a fortunate thing for us, I believe.