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Old Testament

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Posted

Ok. So this thread is dedicated to studying and discussing the Old Testament(Bible). We will be using the Message Version.

We are going to start from the beginning.

Genesis 1

Heaven and Earth

1-2First this: God created the Heavens and Earth—all you see, all you don't see. Earth was a soup of nothingness, a bottomless emptiness, an inky blackness. God's Spirit brooded like a bird above the watery abyss.

3-5 God spoke: "Light!"

And light appeared.

God saw that light was good

and separated light from dark.

God named the light Day,

he named the dark Night.

It was evening, it was morning—

Day One.

6-8 God spoke: "Sky! In the middle of the waters;

separate water from water!"

God made sky.

He separated the water under sky

from the water above sky.

And there it was:

he named sky the Heavens;

It was evening, it was morning—

Day Two.

9-10 God spoke: "Separate!

Water-beneath-Heaven, gather into one place;

Land, appear!"

And there it was.

God named the land Earth.

He named the pooled water Ocean.

God saw that it was good.

11-13 God spoke: "Earth, green up! Grow all varieties

of seed-bearing plants,

Every sort of fruit-bearing tree."

And there it was.

Earth produced green seed-bearing plants,

all varieties,

And fruit-bearing trees of all sorts.

God saw that it was good.

It was evening, it was morning—

Day Three.

14-15 God spoke: "Lights! Come out!

Shine in Heaven's sky!

Separate Day from Night.

Mark seasons and days and years,

Lights in Heaven's sky to give light to Earth."

And there it was.

16-19 God made two big lights, the larger

to take charge of Day,

The smaller to be in charge of Night;

and he made the stars.

God placed them in the heavenly sky

to light up Earth

And oversee Day and Night,

to separate light and dark.

God saw that it was good.

It was evening, it was morning—

Day Four.

20-23 God spoke: "Swarm, Ocean, with fish and all sea life!

Birds, fly through the sky over Earth!"

God created the huge whales,

all the swarm of life in the waters,

And every kind and species of flying birds.

God saw that it was good.

God blessed them: "Prosper! Reproduce! Fill Ocean!

Birds, reproduce on Earth!"

It was evening, it was morning—

Day Five.

24-25 God spoke: "Earth, generate life! Every sort and kind:

cattle and reptiles and wild animals—all kinds."

And there it was:

wild animals of every kind,

Cattle of all kinds, every sort of reptile and bug.

God saw that it was good.

26-28 God spoke: "Let us make human beings in our image, make them

reflecting our nature

So they can be responsible for the fish in the sea,

the birds in the air, the cattle,

And, yes, Earth itself,

and every animal that moves on the face of Earth."

God created human beings;

he created them godlike,

Reflecting God's nature.

He created them male and female.

God blessed them:

"Prosper! Reproduce! Fill Earth! Take charge!

Be responsible for fish in the sea and birds in the air,

for every living thing that moves on the face of Earth."

29-30 Then God said, "I've given you

every sort of seed-bearing plant on Earth

And every kind of fruit-bearing tree,

given them to you for food.

To all animals and all birds,

everything that moves and breathes,

I give whatever grows out of the ground for food."

And there it was.

31 God looked over everything he had made;

it was so good, so very good!

It was evening, it was morning—

Day Six.

So here is the creation, the beginning of the world according to the Bible. It is interesting to notice how God created human beings in his image. After creating us he did not leave us without nothing. He gave us all that grows out of the ground to eat.

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Posted

In the beginning..... He made us adn gave us the world to live in. He didn't leave us without provisions or a means to survive; he gave us everything we needed.

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Yes. That is true. Yet though he provided for us back then, and that he provides for us now, we doubt that he will provide and provide for ourselves through our own means. I do not mean that we shouldn't work, that would be foolish and dumb, but maybe we ought to put more of our trust into him. After all he created us and he loves us. He provided for us in the beginning and continues to provide for us today in ways we have haven't realized. He is the one who sends the rains to help us grow the crops we need to eat and to survive. That is why Haiti experienced a lack of rain while the DR had plenty of rain. Haiti had given itself over to the devil, so God did not bless it. A kid who steals a cookie does not deserve another one for what he did. It is the kid who did not steal a cookie that will receive one from his parents.

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Yes. That is true. Yet though he provided for us back then, and that he provides for us now, we doubt that he will provide and provide for ourselves through our own means. I do not mean that we shouldn't work, that would be foolish and dumb, but maybe we ought to put more of our trust into him. After all he created us and he loves us. He provided for us in the beginning and continues to provide for us today in ways we have haven't realized. He is the one who sends the rains to help us grow the crops we need to eat and to survive. That is why Haiti experienced a lack of rain while the DR had plenty of rain. Haiti had given itself over to the devil, so God did not bless it. A kid who steals a cookie does not deserve another one for what he did. It is the kid who did not steal a cookie that will receive one from his parents.

Surely you are joking, right?

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Posted

That is a good point. We are so used to receiving all of these things daily that we start taking them for granted; even things like rain. Haiti lost their rain for a long period of time because they promised to serve the devil for a hundred years if they won the war against the French. That time period ended just a few years ago and that is why now Haiti is getting rain. We should put our trust in God to provide for us.

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Posted

1. The Book of Genesis is literally untrue. The world was not created in six days, 6,000 years ago. Whether it has symbolic truth or worth of any kind is debatable. Some theologians maintain that the work was never intended to be taken literally, or even to be taken as a symbolic text of creation, but rather as a symbolic text of man's growing relationship to God. However that may be, all ancient cultures had their creations myths. All are wrong. Ancient people were as smart as we are, but they lacked our current knowledge base and they did not yet have the tools to interrogate reality to see what it was really all about.

2. The earth is 4.6 billions years old. It was not made for humans at all, or for anything at all. It came into being according to a well-understood, mindless (unintentional) process of stellar evolution that can be observed in other aborning star systems to this very day. The amount of time that humans have been on earth, in comparison with the antiquity of the planet, is so minuscule as to stagger the mind. Even in comparison to the time that life has been on the planet, human existence is infinitesimal. If the history of the world were compressed to one year, and the clocks started running on Jan. 1, humans would not make their first appearance until the last one-tenth of one second of Dec. 31.

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Yes. That is true. Yet though he provided for us back then, and that he provides for us now, we doubt that he will provide and provide for ourselves through our own means. I do not mean that we shouldn't work, that would be foolish and dumb, but maybe we ought to put more of our trust into him. After all he created us and he loves us. He provided for us in the beginning and continues to provide for us today in ways we have haven't realized. He is the one who sends the rains to help us grow the crops we need to eat and to survive. That is why Haiti experienced a lack of rain while the DR had plenty of rain. Haiti had given itself over to the devil, so God did not bless it. A kid who steals a cookie does not deserve another one for what he did. It is the kid who did not steal a cookie that will receive one from his parents.

Surely you are joking, right?

Afraid not. I know you wish I was. This is what I believe David. You can ask questions if you want. But I am hoping that we don't take this thread down the same path as Pascal's Wager 1+2 and Alexander's Questions thread.

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Posted

What can we learn from this?

God does not like darkies.

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Posted

Well, heck, why would he, Blighter? I mean aren't they descendants of Ham or some such in the OT? God never liked Ham; he likes a nice Italian sausage and perhaps wine on the side.

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I am sure it is safe to assume that you would rather have all christians dead so you don't have to deal with what we say.

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The thing about haiti seems unlikely. When you give yourself to the devil, you are not blessed, but you are not cursed either. God loves everybody the same, and he only wants people to CHOOSE him. If they don't, do be it. That doesn't mean he is going to shower fire down on them or something. And to add to that, God is a mighty being, but he isn't a mean titan who kills people when they disobey. If they disobey, they just feel a bast emptiness. If I was to turn Wiccan today, God wouldn't send a car to hit me. I just wouldn't get the blessings he does give.... That is my beliefs on the subject. Natural disasters happen because we are ruining our earth, not because he is pissed off. And as for creation, Darwinian theory has been proven wrong very easily and I do believe we were created but not in 6 literal days. A day to him might be millions of years to us. My mom told me that is how the dinosaurs lived before humans, because he created animals first and then humans, but it was in a longer time span then a literal 144 hours. That is what I was taught and what I BELIEVE. I am not saying I am right, or anybody else is wrong, but that is my say and my beliefs/opinions on the subject matter.... (don't hate on me please...)

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Posted

As the only (so far as I recall) TGL regular who professes God as fact, there are some statements in this thread which I must address. Alvira, what follows will seem very harsh. Because it is. But, it is not directed at you personally, even though you can eventually benefit from the points made.

God created human beings in his image.

What is this "image"? Humans are physical, but "God is spirit"; so, what significance is there to be drawn from the notion of being created in God's image?

He didn't leave us without provisions or a means to survive; he gave us everything we needed.

And what is it that we need? Surely not just provisions sufficient for survival.

That is why Haiti experienced a lack of rain while the DR had plenty of rain. Haiti had given itself over to the devil, so God did not bless it.

The assertion above is false. The very core of the Christian message is that "God is love." This is so very central to the Christian message that it is actually said that "Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love." When challenged in terms of how God could be love (or perfectly loving) and effect such a calamity, many who call themselves believers will typically say something along the lines of this or that calamity is done as punishment with love just as a parent who loves an offspring will occasionally have to punish that offspring so that the child can learn the right way of being.

That, however, would be a dreadful analogy, dreadful because of its abhorrent shallowness, a shallowness made an abomination when spewed from the mouth of someone who identifies himself or herself as a lover of God, thereby a lover of love, yet apparently having a grossly inadequate understanding about the nature of love.

The Christian idea of love is that love is had for individuals. Which individuals? Any who are or who might become one's neighbor. Consequently, the burden for a Christian who would claim that God effects calamity upon all of Haiti because some Haitians practice Voodoo or have "given [themselves] over to the devil" is to explain how God whose love is for individuals would inflict calamity upon individuals who had not "given [themselves] over to the devil".

Of course, to provide such an explanation, it is actually necessary also to delve extensively into the very nature of love. Unfortunately, this is an effort with which very few Christians bother themselves. Instead, on the basis of centuries of insufficient concern with the nature of love, what can likely be expected is a response which holds that there is no one who is without sin such that even those who have not "given [themselves] over to the devil" are not unjustly treated when subjected to the same calamity.

Christians' professed belief in the utter primacy of love means that justice is subordinate to love; therefore, such a tack which refers to justice is irrelevant inasmuch as the issue is love. And when this is pointed out, some Christians will aver, saying that, although they may not know well enough the nature of love, there are, nonetheless, many stories in the Bible which inform them that God does effect calamities in the very manner as was claimed about Haiti.

But, the trap for the Christian remains. It is insufficient for Christians to believe something because they can make an analogy with a story in the Bible. It is insufficient, because the Christian must love, meaning that trust in the Bible is in no way a substitute for the love which is absolutely necessary.

Of course, it is the Christians' notion that the necessity of love applies to all and not just Christians. That being the case, then it is time that each individual Christian dedicate himself or herself to coming to realize the nature of love, regardless of whether all others - Christian or not - do not so concern themselves.

Michael

I actually agree with most of this. It's like I said in my post, being a christian is not believing that if someone hands [themself] over to the devil, they are going to hell. Love plays a HUGE roll in the entire entity of God. God is a spiritual being and he created us in his image, which could mean he created us how he sees himself, but we are personified. Love is love no matter what, and to be a christian believer, you need to love all. Love thine enemy as if they were thy brother. I really like what Michael had to say about it, because that is a huge thing about it. The main point that I myself forgot to mention: Love.

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Thanks for the viewpoint Michael. I agree with a lot of what you said.

And to everyone else who has posted on here or is maybe thinking about it. What is the point about getting into a big debate/argument about this if it isn't true as so many of you claim? Just throwing that out there.

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Why do you get all uptight about Christianity. Is it a threat to you?

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I am sure it is safe to assume that you would rather have all christians dead so you don't have to deal with what we say.

And to everyone else who has posted on here or is maybe thinking about it. What is the point about getting into a big debate/argument about this if it isn't true as so many of you claim? Just throwing that out there.

Why do you get all uptight about Christianity. Is it a threat to you?

These are classic defensive projections. No need to do that.

If people want to discuss, they will discuss.

For example, I believe that our Pascal's Wager discussions have shown, and I think you agree, that the Pascal's Wager comment you made is not a very good or strong argument for or toward belief in Christianity. I posed the question, all right, then, what *IS* the argument or evidence that actually convinces you? IOW, what is the BEST argument, in your view? You replied that that was "a good question," but so far have not elected to share that with us.

You suggested in a portion of the discussion that, if Pascal's Wager has been shown not to be particularly effective, what your thoughts were about the discussion so far. You said that Romans outlined your thoughts. I'm willing to examine that with you (I posted that I would take your suggestion) if you want. But discussion is a two-way street. It takes exchange of ideas, some back and forth, willingness to engage.

#555

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Why do you get all uptight about Christianity. Is it a threat to you?

Telling people not to discuss things they don't agree with is tantamount to trying to silence them, which is tantamount to denying their democratic right to free speech.

All manner of atrocities have been committed in the name of Christianity, from Crusades to hate crimes, and it is not beyond reason that people should request some form of justification for a religion that propagates and facilitates such myriad wrongdoings!

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I personally do not want anybody to die. Especially horribly and in pain. There is no point to that. I do not wish it on anybody.

The idea that people who somehow worship the devil (which is probably based on the notion that when they had a revolution against the French they were against Christianity and thus the devil… this is what I have been told by others about Haiti who are Christians. This also include voodoo and the like.) will be punished twice by God is something that I don't understand.

If they have free will, and some people do one thing in a group and the others do not, a God that withholds something from the entire group and then punishes all for one person's transgression makes little sense. He is now killing them all to kill some and _then_ torturing them in Hell. Why is this loving?

I don't want things to degrade more in this thread, but posting that people deserve punishment is something I won't have here. I understand you say you aren't bringing forth that notion, it just seems like it is a fact to you and that it is just fine, God punishes those who defy him, correct?

It is a fearful existence isn't it?

My sister died thinking that God was punishing her. She couldn't figure out why, she did everything she could, but somehow, someway, she was being punished and so were her husband and child. It broke my heart, not her dying, but her believing that the God she loved so much would put her through such pain and suffering.

That is why I do not like posting that people are "with the devil" and deserve punishment. You may not think you are espousing that, but it what the words do.

-Scott

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I think it's time for everybody's favourite evil toilet-roll-hogging spider to step in and calm the waters with some calm posts.

First of all, you don't need to quote full passages from the Bible. Just cite the verses, and any member who wants to discuss them can look them up themselves. Those who do not have access to a printed Bible can access a variety of versions at Biblegateway.com.

As regards Haiti, I'm afraid that I cannot agree with you on this. Perhaps in an ideal world, Haiti would be punished for being evil, but there are too many factors that compel me to believe other than what you do here:

1) There are many children who do bad things, but get cookies, and many good kids who are good, but get nothing, and can even be treated harshly. For example, in school the children who are bullies tend to be the more popular kids in school, whereas their victims find themselves without friends, sometimes without help. Even the teachers can be useless. (Fighting temptation to go on a rant here).

2) Considering everything the Haitians have been through these last couple of years alone (natural disasters, epidemics, etc), they would all have to have been very evil to deserve what they got. As Mike has already pointed out, the "innocents" suffered with the "guilty." An omniscient, omnipotent God would have no need to punish people who did not deserve it, yet it seems He did.

3) The Haitians practice Voodoo, which has been unfairly and inaccurately labelled as Devil-worship, but the two are not the same. If Haiti is to be punished for Voodoo, why does God not punish countries such as India and Japan, which include a large number of Hindus and Shintoists? If Laveyan Satanists worship the Devil (albeit as a concept or an idea, for they don't believe in the physical embodiment of evil in the way the Christians do), why are they not being punished in the way the Haitians have been? What about those who practice Voodoo elsewhere?

4) There were floods in the British city of Sheffield last year. A pastor declared that the floods were a punishment because of homosexuals in the city; however, Brighton is the homosexual capital of the UK. It is a city on the south coast with a charming pier. It did not suffer floods. This is one of the main reasons why I respond to the notion that a people or a land has suffered disaster, because they angered God with incredulity.

There are some inquiries I wish to make about the Genesis passages posted so far, but I can see that there have been 3 replies to this thread since I started typing, so I think I'll read those, then continue.

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Posted

I am sure it is safe to assume that you would rather have all christians dead so you don't have to deal with what we say.

Come now, we know this is not true. I know you're upset, because there has been anger in this thread (and others) directed against Christianity, but rest assured that the people here, though they may disagree strongly with Christianity as a religion, do not hate all Christians. I will be the first to admit that there are passages in the Bible that I find abhorrent, and there are things that have been said and done by Christians that make me sick, but there's all the good stuff, too, such as the Quakers who fought tirelessly to abolish human slavery, and there is some excellent charity work done by a number of Christians today.

I can understand your reaction; you have a relationship with your God that many here neither share nor seem to understand, and why would we? We do not believe in God, we cannot believe in Him, so the idea of getting as passionate about God as you get is alien to us. When members here lose their temper, please don't take it personally or think that it is because they hate Christians. There are good people here who have a strong sense of morality. They have not lost their tempers with you here, because you are Christian, but because the idea that people such as the Haitians deserve everything they have got, because of their practice of Voodoo upsets them. They see it as victim-blame. It's a bit like seeing a female being raped, then hearing somebody say, "She deserved it for the way she dressed." Hearing somebody attempt to justify an atrocity by saying that the victim deserved it for whatever reason is not something that is easy for good people to hear.

I would like you to please clarify your position on Haiti. Perhaps you are not entirely aware of just how bad the situation there has been. You mentioned a lack of rain due to Voodoo. Is (or was) it your belief that a lack of rain was all they got, or are you aware of the humanitarian disasters that have plagued them for a long time now? If you are, do you feel pity or remorse for them? Forgive me if I am wrong, but I am seeing this as you attempting to justify something terrible that your God has done, and your strong connection to him means you are ready to say anything in His defence. You want to believe in a world of justice, where the good are rewarded and the bad are punished, so you try to find ways to convince yourself that people who suffer mishap deserve it. Don't worry, I don't hate you for this, because a lot of people do it -good people have caused a lot of suffering to, for example, rape victims by being so convinced that the world must be just that they have convinced themselves that the victim deserved it. You are only human, after all, but the goal of every human being should be to rise above humanity, to be better than the other humans in this world.

Jesus Christ had the strength and the compassion to love, pity, and forgive those who had wronged him personally. He was (according to some sources) good friends with a prostitute. He healed those who had invaded his own country, attacked his own people. When you see people suffer, follow Jesus's example, and show compassion to them. Love, pity, and forgive them, rather than try to imagine why they might deserve it. Compassion and understanding can do more to help an unruly child become a good adult than any switch or rod could ever do.

As has been pointed out, there are Haitians that have not practiced Voodoo, yet they are being punished. I hope that you agree that they do not deserve it. If you cannot find it in your heart to show remorse and compassion for those who did practice Voodoo, please, please, please, show it for those who did not.

Finally, because I just need to know, if you were a person who gives to charity (you might be, I don't know), would you give to a relief fund destined for Haiti so that you would be contributing to the victims of humanitarian disasters there?

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Alvira, Pieces, Blood, and Alexander,

In case you are interested, there is some discussion about the nature of love to be found in this thread. Of particular importance is the matter of kenosis which is first mentioned in the ninth posting in that thread. I also recommend considering whether the (frankly wretched) term, omnipotence, is properly understood only in the context of kenosis where, in the case of God, there is no diminution or elimination of Godself in the self-emptying which is divine kenosis.

You might also find something useful in the blog entries found here and here.

Michael

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I am sure it is safe to assume that you would rather have all christians dead so you don't have to deal with what we say.

Come now, we know this is not true. I know you're upset, because there has been anger in this thread (and others) directed against Christianity, but rest assured that the people here, though they may disagree strongly with Christianity as a religion, do not hate all Christians. I will be the first to admit that there are passages in the Bible that I find abhorrent, and there are things that have been said and done by Christians that make me sick, but there's all the good stuff, too, such as the Quakers who fought tirelessly to abolish human slavery, and there is some excellent charity work done by a number of Christians today.

I can understand your reaction; you have a relationship with your God that many here neither share nor seem to understand, and why would we? We do not believe in God, we cannot believe in Him, so the idea of getting as passionate about God as you get is alien to us. When members here lose their temper, please don't take it personally or think that it is because they hate Christians. There are good people here who have a strong sense of morality. They have not lost their tempers with you here, because you are Christian, but because the idea that people such as the Haitians deserve everything they have got, because of their practice of Voodoo upsets them. They see it as victim-blame. It's a bit like seeing a female being raped, then hearing somebody say, "She deserved it for the way she dressed." Hearing somebody attempt to justify an atrocity by saying that the victim deserved it for whatever reason is not something that is easy for good people to hear.

I would like you to please clarify your position on Haiti. Perhaps you are not entirely aware of just how bad the situation there has been. You mentioned a lack of rain due to Voodoo. Is (or was) it your belief that a lack of rain was all they got, or are you aware of the humanitarian disasters that have plagued them for a long time now? If you are, do you feel pity or remorse for them? Forgive me if I am wrong, but I am seeing this as you attempting to justify something terrible that your God has done, and your strong connection to him means you are ready to say anything in His defence. You want to believe in a world of justice, where the good are rewarded and the bad are punished, so you try to find ways to convince yourself that people who suffer mishap deserve it. Don't worry, I don't hate you for this, because a lot of people do it -good people have caused a lot of suffering to, for example, rape victims by being so convinced that the world must be just that they have convinced themselves that the victim deserved it. You are only human, after all, but the goal of every human being should be to rise above humanity, to be better than the other humans in this world.

Jesus Christ had the strength and the compassion to love, pity, and forgive those who had wronged him personally. He was (according to some sources) good friends with a prostitute. He healed those who had invaded his own country, attacked his own people. When you see people suffer, follow Jesus's example, and show compassion to them. Love, pity, and forgive them, rather than try to imagine why they might deserve it. Compassion and understanding can do more to help an unruly child become a good adult than any switch or rod could ever do.

As has been pointed out, there are Haitians that have not practiced Voodoo, yet they are being punished. I hope that you agree that they do not deserve it. If you cannot find it in your heart to show remorse and compassion for those who did practice Voodoo, please, please, please, show it for those who did not.

Finally, because I just need to know, if you were a person who gives to charity (you might be, I don't know), would you give to a relief fund destined for Haiti so that you would be contributing to the victims of humanitarian disasters there?

First off, will someone please clarify for me when we stated that Haitians were being punished for their actions of the past by having natural disasters and such happen to their country?

Bear with me please I'm going to try and write this calmly; I really do love you all and don't want to hurt you. Scotty, I'm really sorry about your sister. I don't know why she thought God was punishing her when she was dying. Personally I don't think God meant for her to see it that way. Some people die before others, and it's definitely not always fair who gets to lead a longer life and who doesn't.

I'm going to try and clear up the Haiti issue here. To start let me say that I grew up on the Dominican Republic which is Haiti's neighbor (they are on the same island). I lived there for roughly 11 years of my life and the last 4 years I was there I lived along the Haitian border (literally 5 minutes drive away). (I didn't move to Canada till just over a year ago.) During the four years that I lived along the border in the last few you could start to see changes happen in the land. It went from being like a desert with almost no vegetation, rain about 2-4 months in the year with almost nothing inbetween, and small rivers, to a greener landscape with bigger rivers (some of the rivers close to my house started flooding their banks), and rain coming nearly every month. Why I'm telling you this probably doesn't make sense at the moment but let me explain.

A few months after the big earthquake in Haiti, I started taking trips into the capital city of Port-au-Prince with my dad to see if we could do anything to help. So yes, Davey, I do know first hand you might say of some of the destruction caused there which I won't go into detail on. Whenever we went in we stayed with some Haitian friends of ours, and where asking a little about their history. What I shared before is what the Haitian people themselves told me and I have more than one source.

When the Haitians were fighting for liberty from the French rule they were losing the war. So the leaders of the Haitian side made a pact with the devil and said that if they won the war they would serve him for 200 years. They won the war and therefore went about fulfilling their end of the bargain. Haiti turned from the 'jewel of the Caribbean' as stated by Columbus to a near wasteland. The pact ended in 2004 and that is when the weather began to change. I think lots of the flooding that went on was due to the fact that the land wasn't used to rain; all the soil got washed away because of it.

In my opinion God has not been punishing Haiti but trying to get the people's attention. He wants them to follow him. After the earthquake there were two national prayer days called in Haiti that I know of. Two different days when Haitian people gathered in any park of other meeting area they could find to talk to God. I was in the country when the first one of these happened though I did not go to it.

Does that clear anything up? I can continue this if I have to. Discussion is fine by me, please just understand what I am trying to tell you hear. I'm not trying to force anything on you or make an argument. I simply meant to answer Davey plea for an explanation.

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To answer Davey, I feel horrible for what happened to the people of Haiti. If I could do anything to help them, I would without a doubt. If you did not get the story behind what I stated, you would of course jump to conclusions thinking I thought they deserved, perhaps if you hadn't taken it out of context that badly this would not need to be said. I would like to mention that me and Aeris decided to start this thread so we could discuss the Bible and discuss things. Not to have people get annoyed and start freaking out about things taken out of context or people trying to prove our faith wrong. If you would like to start a thread about that, please go right ahead, just not here. Please.

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Posted

First off, will someone please clarify for me when we stated that Haitians were being punished for their actions of the past by having natural disasters and such happen to their country?

That is why Haiti experienced a lack of rain while the DR had plenty of rain. Haiti had given itself over to the devil, so God did not bless it.

Laugh Out Loud.

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Posted

you don't need to quote full passages from the Bible.

On the other hand, it is a tried and tested method of generating substantial content without having to think too much.

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